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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 09:42 |
Yep, without a doubt they have us fooled. The are just another indie-pop band who for whatever reason decided to create, with their most recent release (HoL), a full-blown rock opera with a (reasonably) coherent narrative, with (reasonably) repeating but expanding motifs and themes, and with an inherent knack for pleasantly manipulating the emotions of the listener. For some reason, The Crane Wife also exhibits many of these same traits. Let's just hope they can keep fooling us.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 09:01 |
Are The Decemberists prog folk? Not always. But so what? Neither is Jethro Tull.
The first three releases are not exactly prog folk as many might consider the term, but they're all still great and have some pleasing exceptions, like "Odalisque" from the debut- this is progressive folk if there ever was a such thing.
But then you have The Crane Wife, which is partly a concept album (and contains the masterpiece "The Island") and The Hazards of Love, which is a progressive folk masterpiece in the richest sense.
Do The Decemberists have us fooled?
My answer: Who cares? If they do, I'm damn happy to be that fool!
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 08:19 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
Sounds like you either accept that the prog of today by definition sounds differently than the classic bands, or you simply stop listening to music that wasn't created in the 70s.
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If it didn't sound different from the prog of the 70s, it wouldn't be progressive. Which leads to the conclusion that people are in it for the specific musical elements and not the ideals, which is what eventually happens in a lot of genres.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 08:15 |
Edited by Epignosis - June 13 2009 at 08:15
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 08:03 |
rogerthat wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
Maybe some people simply forgot the ideals they used to hold high when they initially became fans of progressive music.
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There you are. Ideals are for pontification and evangelization, human tendency reigns supreme in the end. I definitely cannot buy into the concept of disliking something simply because it's not prog, doesn't make sense at all because prog draws from other genres to come up with something different, just like a lot of music made in other genres in fact. |
The point is that initially prog was something different. It was also more complex/sophisticated, but also added more influences from other styles (mostly Jazz and Classical). Today bands are either frowned upon for copying the classic bands, or called "non-prog" by genre elitists if they sound too differently, or have influences from modern styles of music (Electronic, Pop, Metal). Sounds like you either accept that the prog of today by definition sounds differently than the classic bands, or you simply stop listening to music that wasn't created in the 70s.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:59 |
What is really odd is that other prog websites do not seem to hold to the same idea of 'purity' many people have here... ProgEars has a good deal of pure jazz entries in their database (not to mention reviews for the likes of Bob Dylan and Napalm death), ProgGnosis includes artists such as Daryl Hall because of their occasional collaborations with prog musicians (Fripp in this particular case), and Sea of Tranquillity is chock-full of reviews of hair metal albums. Yet, I don't care, and continue to visit the sites whenever I want, without posting in their forums (if they have one) and decrying their addition policy.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:58 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
Maybe some people simply forgot the ideals they used to hold high when they initially became fans of progressive music.
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There you are. Ideals are for pontification and evangelization, human tendency reigns supreme in the end. I definitely cannot buy into the concept of disliking something simply because it's not prog, doesn't make sense at all because prog draws from other genres to come up with something different, just like a lot of music made in other genres in fact.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:53 |
Sure. But there are also those who try to look beyond their current favorite genres ... and IMO that is the spirit of progressiveness. Maybe some people simply forgot the ideals they used to hold high when they initially became fans of progressive music.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:48 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
What I can't understand is why prog fans - of all people - seem so prone to inflexibility.
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Because an inferior lowly thing should not corrupt the purity of prog, or some such elitist notions? Similar to "violate the halls of heavy metal". I guess you have answered your question, once you become a 'prog' fan, you become obsessed with it, seek out only prog rock and have very rigid notions of what constitutes prog rock in turn. It's not the ideal way, but the world is hardly ideal, most music fans tend to profess 'allegiance' to one or two genres and are very possessive about it. It's a generalization but not one that fails too often.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:44 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
What I can't understand is why prog fans - of all people - seem so prone to inflexibility.
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Try not to understand this. It can only lead to madness. Not all of us are that way. By the way I haven't tried them yet. I'm not in the mood for new discoveries at the moment. But sooner or later I will be... Prog or not prog? Yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't yes it is, etc.
Edited by Slartibartfast - June 13 2009 at 08:08
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:35 |
On this note...
theBox wrote:
Well, "the crane wife" definitely had some progressive tendencies, which led many people to believe that the band would become progressively more progressive. That could not be further from the truth however, as they proved with "the hazards of love", and so we are stuck with YET another artist in here with 3 and a half progressive songs! Hurraaay!
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I just wonder why you people can't just IGNORE what you don't like, and spare us your snarky, pointless comments. You don't like the site's addition policy? Either you address it constructively and respectfully in the Help Us Improve the Site section, or leave us alone. Try and have a look at other prog websites, and you'll see what they include, if you think we're bad. We have over 4,000 bands in our DB, most of whom are what you would call prog... Why not focus on those, instead of trolling?
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:30 |
They certainly had me fooled......
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:28 |
What I can't understand is why prog fans - of all people - seem so prone to inflexibility.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:19 |
hmmm... sort of expected a thread like this as some people will take note how prog fans have embraced this groups and will want to see what they are missing.
the simple truth of the matter is... some will see it as prog... some won't.
If one's idea of prog involves stupid, pseudo-intellectual lyrics wrapped up in emotionless, complexity for complexities-sake music.. then they will probably fail to see how some see the Decemberists as prog. Raff is right though... I heard people talking about that during the show we saw... not in our terms of course.. but it was clear.. just how different their music was from the typical sh*t out there.
if those who see them as being a modern heir to progressive folk music are fooled... then ... ahhaha... there are a hell of a lot of people that are fooled. That leads me to think that people like the OP are the ones .. not being fooled... but not musically-intelligent of listeners to discern prog from non-prog.
Edited by micky - June 13 2009 at 07:21
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:04 |
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Oh and the Ice Queen, your so called "poor Janis Joplin impersonator" is not in the band and is FING AWESOME
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You rock, sir ! As for being 'fooled', now listen... I can understand you NOT liking a band, or even not thinking they're prog (it is your right, and no one is taking it away from you), but I draw the line at any implications that adult people (as Bob, Micky and I, to mention but three) definitely are, can be so be easily fooled. I don't think Porcupine Tree are particularly progressive, but I don't go around the forums implying their MANY fans are been fooled. Whenever I have seen their latest album, The Hazards of Love, mentioned, it as ALWAYS in conjunction with the word 'prog' - even on indie magazines. Now, that's a whole lot of people to be fooled...
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Prog_Bassist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 29 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 830
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 06:51 |
even though I love them whether they are prog or not, i still think they are prog. as of late, anyway. ever since "the tain" at least.
keep in mind most big prog bands didn't start as prog in the first place.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65239
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 05:12 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I guess that long time fans of Jethro Tull's key albums from the 70s should get used to the idea that not every folk related band has to sound like a JT clone, with a slightly weird flute player .
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yes, they do
Edited by Atavachron - June 13 2009 at 05:13
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 05:05 |
"Do The Decemberists have people fooled?" No. Did they have any part in being included here? I don't think so. Several collabs listened to their music and came to the conclusion that they could be included here. I don't really think the band cares whether they're listed here - my guess is that they would not call their music "Prog Folk", and neither would I - but their later albums are surely progressive. I guess that long time fans of Jethro Tull's key albums from the 70s should get used to the idea that not every folk related band has to sound like a JT clone, with a slightly weird flute player (standing on one foot while playing -> extra points).
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theBox
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 427
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 05:00 |
Well, "the crane wife" definitely had some progressive tendencies, which led many people to believe that the band would become progressively more progressive . That could not be further from the truth however, as they proved with "the hazards of love", and so we are stuck with YET another artist in here with 3 and a half progressive songs! Hurraaay!
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Synchestra
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 07 2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 734
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Posted: June 13 2009 at 02:20 |
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Oh and the Ice Queen, your so called "poor Janis Joplin impersonator" is not in the band and is FING AWESOME |
her part in 'The Wanting Comes In Waves' is probably my very favourite part from that album actually
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'Yeah, thats.. Whatever you're talking about for ya' - Zapp brannigan
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