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Are RUSH actually Prog?
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

It amazes how cstack3 makes the same early prog argument for Journey as others have done for Rush but can't see the parallels.


Yes...and Journey( basically a Santana clone-Schon and Rolie- with less latin influence). had 2 decent lp's in the very early time and pop rock junk later,  while Rush had a string of strong lp's from 76-81, but I never considered either to be all that 'proggy'...though that epic 2112 piece had its moments.

But the thing with 2112 is that it's not symphonic prog, which throws the old timers. Prog metal or heavy prog doesn't resonate and that's the other half of the problem, but it's still prog rock.

Edited by SteveG - May 04 2021 at 09:27
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

It amazes how cstack3 makes the same early prog argument for Journey as others have done for Rush but can't see the parallels.

Yes...and Journey( basically a Santana clone-Schon and Rolie- with less latin influence). had 2 decent lp's in the very early time and pop rock junk later,  while Rush had a string of strong lp's from 76-81, but I never considered either to be all that 'proggy'...though that epic 2112 piece had its moments.


Edited by dr wu23 - May 04 2021 at 09:00
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.

Because you stopped at Fly By Night. LOL

That's like jumping ship with Tull after This Was.
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It amazes how cstack3 makes the same early prog argument for Journey as others have done for Rush but can't see the parallels.
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 As many have already stated here,  in the 70's Rush produced several albums that most people would consider to be prog rock ( 2112, AFTK, Hemispheres) In the early 80's they started to streamline their music  like many other prog bands,( Yes, Genesis, ELP...)  The songs became shorter & more accessible but still had prog rock components like time signature changes (Freewill, Tom Sawyer...) or feel changes and different movements within the song ( The Camera Eye, Natural Science...)
In short they changed over the years but always incorporated elements of prog rock in their music. 
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:
OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.   An AOR band like Journey has more prog cred IMHO.  Check out Schon's guitar in this song from their debut, featuring former Zappa drummer Aynsley Dunbar.
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Again, your opinion is based on unfamiliarity, like the OP. You don't like Rush, so you're not going to investigate songs like this not found on the radio. This 20 minute epic is prog Charles, as good as Journey, Yes, whatever.

Edited by SteveG - May 04 2021 at 09:30
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.   

Caress Of Steel and 2112 both have side long suites.
A Farewell to Kings has Xanadu - that's about as prog as it gets
Hemisphere has another side long suite and it has La Villa Strangiato - if that ain't prog I dunno what is.

Admittedly from after Moving Pictures things changed, but I would definitely consider the Caress of Steel to Permanent Waves period prog.
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^If you added conga drums to that and closed your eyes the first few minutes would sound exactly like Santana.
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Jeez, we should just rename this thing "Rush Archives!" LOL

OK, they are a very good band, but I don't hear one thing from Rush that rivals "The Revealing Science of God," where Squire emulates a concert tympani by playing his fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, or "Gates of Delerium," where Howe destroys his modified Telecaster for nearly 30 minutes.  I could go on.  
Rush are not in my prog top ten either Charles, but I think how much or little we like them is besides the point of the thread.

OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.   An AOR band like Journey has more prog cred IMHO.  Check out Schon's guitar in this song from their debut, featuring former Zappa drummer Aynsley Dunbar. 




LOL
you call Journey AOR and then post a  song from their early period, first album, when they were not poppy. LOL
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Jeez, we should just rename this thing "Rush Archives!" LOL

OK, they are a very good band, but I don't hear one thing from Rush that rivals "The Revealing Science of God," where Squire emulates a concert tympani by playing his fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, or "Gates of Delerium," where Howe destroys his modified Telecaster for nearly 30 minutes.  I could go on.  
Rush are not in my prog top ten either Charles, but I think how much or little we like them is besides the point of the thread.

OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.   An AOR band like Journey has more prog cred IMHO.  Check out Schon's guitar in this song from their debut, featuring former Zappa drummer Aynsley Dunbar. 





Edited by cstack3 - May 04 2021 at 06:54
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Jeez, we should just rename this thing "Rush Archives!" LOL

OK, they are a very good band, but I don't hear one thing from Rush that rivals "The Revealing Science of God," where Squire emulates a concert tympani by playing his fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, or "Gates of Delerium," where Howe destroys his modified Telecaster for nearly 30 minutes.  I could go on.  
Rush are not in my prog top ten either Charles, but I think how much or little we like them is besides the point of the thread.
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Jeez, we should just rename this thing "Rush Archives!" LOL

OK, they are a very good band, but I don't hear one thing from Rush that rivals "The Revealing Science of God," where Squire emulates a concert tympani by playing his fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, or "Gates of Delerium," where Howe destroys his modified Telecaster for nearly 30 minutes.  I could go on.  
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Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

I think for me Progressive means it has to expand the boundaries and take some risks. The risk is to be commercially unsuccesful. Underground is probanly a better word for it. The tightrope walk rather than the climb up the charts. Something along those lines anyway. Does that match your thoughts in some way?

No. 
Expand boundaries - sounds vague, but yes.
Take risks - yes.
Most bands were successful, thank God. A lot of prog albums charted. 
It was not underground. 

You forgot the two basic components of progressive music - experimentation and going way beyond the "verse-chorus-verse" pattern. 
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

To make things easier, give examples of music that you listen to that you consider to be prog rock. That might help your arguments. I think that you are in the classic symphonic prog fan base.


and that was 'prog' in the seventies but then people were not so obsessed with labels

ELP and Yes (71-77) because of popularity were very much up there in people's minds as 'prog'. After that certainly Genesis, Tull and Crimson were as well. The interesting case was always Pink Floyd. They were a lot less technical than those other bands to the point that I believe there was in actuality a 'Big Five' and then Floyd were just tagged on later because of lazy thinking. Rush were never called 'prog' it's true, from what I recollect, but there was an understanding that they were filling a bit of a hole left by many bands that packed up around the time of punk. I suspect that Rush were not keen to be called 'prog' anyway and were quick to divert away from it when it stopped being 'cool'! 


Nah. Rush were geeks who loved prog and never cared about being hip. They just did their own thing.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

To make things easier, give examples of music that you listen to that you consider to be prog rock. That might help your arguments. I think that you are in the classic symphonic prog fan base.

and that was 'prog' in the seventies but then people were not so obsessed with labels

ELP and Yes (71-77) because of popularity were very much up there in people's minds as 'prog'. After that certainly Genesis, Tull and Crimson were as well. The interesting case was always Pink Floyd. They were a lot less technical than those other bands to the point that I believe there was in actuality a 'Big Five' and then Floyd were just tagged on later because of lazy thinking. Rush were never called 'prog' it's true, from what I recollect, but there was an understanding that they were filling a bit of a hole left by many bands that packed up around the time of punk. I suspect that Rush were not keen to be called 'prog' anyway and were quick to divert away from it when it stopped being 'cool'! 
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Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

What I said was that in a hypothetical web page that lists Prog records instead of artists, you could have TAAB and PP, two albums that helped define Prog, and maybe not the rest of JT's production, which is more Blues-based or Folk-based. Also, if for exampke Michael Buble' released a Prog album in, say, 2022, you could have that album listed on the website without having to issue Michael with a Prog artist'passport'. Rush could have their Proggier albums listed (and their poppier ones would be left out) and Threads like this one would cease to exist. I think the web sitecshould showcase Prog music rather than bands who have at some point in their career been pkaying Progressive Rock.we could have Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme here but not Invisible Touch, which makes sense when you think about it.i hope I didn't make you hold your breath for too long! I was asleep.
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To make things easier, give examples of music that you listen to that you consider to be prog rock. That might help your arguments. I think that you are in the classic symphonic prog fan base.

Edited by SteveG - May 03 2021 at 21:40
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I understand there are MANY artists who probably shouldn't be here. I would like to see Santana, Chicago, Steely Dan and many others kicked off the site even though i love many albums from all three.

Kick Steely Dan, change Vangelis to Crossover, and we're good! LOL

Vangelis in crossover? Why? Progressive electronic is not right for that? LOL

I wouldn't mind (better than Prog Related), but Vangelis also plays drums, bass, piano, organ, you name it. He's not just electronic.
I'd prefer The Dan and Chicago in Prog Related. 
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

I think for me Progressive means it has to expand the boundaries and take some risks. The risk is to be commercially unsuccesful. Underground is probanly a better word for it. The tightrope walk rather than the climb up the charts. Something along those lines anyway. Does that match your thoughts in some way?

...and you do also realize that JTull APP was a #1 album in the US on Billboard Pop Albums, as well only reaching #16 on UK Album Charts?? So being that APP was a commercial success not make it prog now?
Rush Moving Pictures only reached #3 in US on Billboard 200.

Thick as a Brick also went to #1 in the States. Every Yes album from Fragile to Tormato was in the top ten both in the States and the UK. Yes were way too poppy in that period. LOL


Edited by The Dark Elf - May 04 2021 at 11:06
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Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

I think for me Progressive means it has to expand the boundaries and take some risks. The risk is to be commercially unsuccesful. Underground is probanly a better word for it. The tightrope walk rather than the climb up the charts. Something along those lines anyway. Does that match your thoughts in some way?

...and you do also realize that JTull APP was a #1 album in the US on Billboard Pop Albums, as well only reaching #16 on UK Album Charts?? So being that APP was a commercial success not make it prog now?
Rush Moving Pictures only reached #3 in US on Billboard 200.
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