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Points: 52595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 15:34
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Which government? Russia's and China's don't count. LOL

I'm not going to do your research for you Steven.  Why don't you look it up? 

That's probably a good thing Steve. I certainly find her research skills to be lacking, and that's about as polite a comment I can make on it.

EDIT: Had to fix the BBcode quotes that she keeps messing up.

The main point isn't my skills.  The main point is...Ivermectin works against Covid.   So much so that India's larges providence- Uttar Pradesh suffers only 24 cases of Covid a day and just 0-2 deaths.  If these stories from Uttar Pradesh are Untrue, than I'll be sad.  But I will immediately update my reality. 

You guys criticize my skills and opinions without addressing the main point. It's as if your are crossing the road and a someone yells at you and  points toward an 18 wheeler bearing down on you.  Instead of looking where the person points, you criticize their T-shirt. 

I respect you Dude. We like the same albums. I don't care if you disagree with me. If my story about Uttar Pradesh is true...would you think that to be important? Can you prove it's not true? Do you care if a cheap, Nobel Prize of Medicine winning drug like Ivermectin works well against Covid?  Or, do you care more about your Political team winning?  Let me know.  There's no use discussing issues with someone who values their political team more than reality.  

Despite popular opinion, I never voted for Trump. Just because,  I didn't believe the Russia Conspiracy does not mean I was a Trump voter. I hated Trump for doing nothing to stop censorship.  These vaccines are the vaccines that Trump cheered for.  I can post you film footage of Cuomo, Kamala Harris, and Joe Biden slamming the same vaccines that they cheer for now.  The difference?  Trump was in power when Cuomo,  K. Harris, Biden said they would not take the vaccine. Now that they are in power....They love the vaccine.

Even if the story of Uttar Pradesh is true - what does it actually prove? That there is a direct correlation between using Ivermectin and the rate of Covid-infections? Certainly not. When the increase of birthrate in some country over a given time span coincides with a population rise of storks in the same time span it does not prove that storks bring babies either.

I think you nailed it with this comment. To add more to this, Elizabeth Finkel at Cosmos Magazine noted the possible correlation is not the same as causation. Uttar Pradesh wasn't the only place on the planet using Ivermectin. Other places that used it don't show this correlation at all.
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 15:15
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:



 Bottom line...You can't sustain a valid argument against Ivermectin.  And why would you want to?  Do you want to see more people die from Covid?


Bottom line... You can't sustain a valid argument pro Ivermectin either.

Here's over sixty recent Ivermectin studies. I think I just sustained a valid pro Ivermectin argument.  

https://c19ivermectin.com/

Just in case you missed it:

A recent scientific study at the university of Würzburg came to the following conclusion: "Die aktuelle Evidenz rechtfertigt keine Verwendung von Ivermectin zur Behandlung oder Prävention von Covid-19". Translation: "The current evidence does not justify the use of Ivermectin for the treatment or prevention of Covid-19". There, that's something scientific.

Here a link to the full article:

https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/aktuelles/pressemitteilungen/single/news/kein-wundermittel-gegen-covid-19/

By the way: Quite interesting that the Würzburg study is not mentioned at the link you gave since it is claimed there that it shows the results of ALL Ivermectin studies.
[/QUOTE]

I translated your article.  That's not a study.  That's opinions about studies. If it were a study, than there would be an abstract, stats, explanation how study was conducted, and much more. The article you posted, Bald Jean has none of the attributes of a study.

Don't believe me. Take your study to a major German University Biology department and ask the Professors if your article is a study?   If that is your idea of a study, I can't respond to your arguments because, it's like responding to a Drama freshman. Lot's of drama, a little trauma, but no science.  

Don't get me wrong.  If anyone here proves Ivermectin won't work against Covid...I'll drop my analysis in a nano-second.  I have no problem with being wrong...as long as I don't stay wrong...How about you Bald Jean? Can you admit when you are wrong?  
[/QUOTE]
The university of Würzburg compared the results of 14 studies about Ivermectin and from these comparisons came to their conclusion. The link is just an article about their findings, not their actual study. That should have been obvious too you.


Edited by BaldFriede - September 23 2021 at 15:33


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Points: 9050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 14:40
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I translated your article.  That's not a study.  That's opinions about studies. If it were a study, than there would be an abstract, stats, explanation how study was conducted, and much more. The article you posted, Bald Jean has none of the attributes of a study.

Oh, that's funny. You, who are mainly linking to conspiracy theory loaded sites, are reproaching academics that they are aggregating medical data from different studies? Now we're really walking on our heads.
You didn't need to translate anything because it is all there in your own language. It is just that you don't like the conclusion that - at the moment (I acknowledge that it is not definitive!) - "There remains insufficient evidence regarding the efficacy and safety of ivermectin used for the treatment of people with COVID‐19 in the inpatient and outpatient settings and to prevent SARS‐CoV‐2 infection in people after high‐risk exposure."

Why are you going against the international medical society?

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Points: 10678 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 14:32
^ "How about you Bald Jean? Can you admit when you are wrong?"
Well, you just got her name wrong. Your talking to Friede, not Jean.

Edited by Easy Money - September 23 2021 at 16:03
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Points: 6794 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 14:19
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:



 Bottom line...You can't sustain a valid argument against Ivermectin.  And why would you want to?  Do you want to see more people die from Covid?


Bottom line... You can't sustain a valid argument pro Ivermectin either.

Here's over sixty recent Ivermectin studies. I think I just sustained a valid pro Ivermectin argument.  

https://c19ivermectin.com/
[/QUOTE]
Just in case you missed it:

A recent scientific study at the university of Würzburg came to the following conclusion: "Die aktuelle Evidenz rechtfertigt keine Verwendung von Ivermectin zur Behandlung oder Prävention von Covid-19". Translation: "The current evidence does not justify the use of Ivermectin for the treatment or prevention of Covid-19". There, that's something scientific.

Here a link to the full article:

https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/aktuelles/pressemitteilungen/single/news/kein-wundermittel-gegen-covid-19/

By the way: Quite interesting that the Würzburg study is not mentioned at the link you gave since it is claimed there that it shows the results of ALL Ivermectin studies.
[/QUOTE]

I translated your article.  That's not a study.  That's opinions about studies. If it were a study, than there would be an abstract, stats, explanation how study was conducted, and much more. The article you posted, Bald Jean has none of the attributes of a study.

Don't believe me. Take your study to a major German University Biology department and ask the Professors if your article is a study?   If that is your idea of a study, I can't respond to your arguments because, it's like responding to a Drama freshman. Lot's of drama, a little trauma, but no science.  

Don't get me wrong.  If anyone here proves Ivermectin won't work against Covid...I'll drop my analysis in a nano-second.  I have no problem with being wrong...as long as I don't stay wrong...How about you Bald Jean? Can you admit when you are wrong?  
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 12:15
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:



 Bottom line...You can't sustain a valid argument against Ivermectin.  And why would you want to?  Do you want to see more people die from Covid?


Bottom line... You can't sustain a valid argument pro Ivermectin either.
[/QUOTE]

Here's over sixty recent Ivermectin studies. I think I just sustained a valid pro Ivermectin argument.  

https://c19ivermectin.com/
[/QUOTE]
Just in case you missed it:

A recent scientific study at the university of Würzburg came to the following conclusion: "Die aktuelle Evidenz rechtfertigt keine Verwendung von Ivermectin zur Behandlung oder Prävention von Covid-19". Translation: "The current evidence does not justify the use of Ivermectin for the treatment or prevention of Covid-19". There, that's something scientific.

Here a link to the full article:

https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/aktuelles/pressemitteilungen/single/news/kein-wundermittel-gegen-covid-19/

By the way: Quite interesting that the Würzburg study is not mentioned at the link you gave since it is claimed there that it shows the results of ALL Ivermectin studies.


Edited by BaldFriede - September 23 2021 at 12:23


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Points: 9050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 12:11
^ Good thing, not to waste anymore time with me. I'm rather surprised that you have a biology degree. You should know that coronaviruses exist indeed since many many years. Why is it then that there was no vaccin against covid-19? Because it simply is a different virus than those other coronaviruses... Why should it be me to explain that to you? You're not worth your degree.

And, still, you apparently haven't read those authoritative and well sourced articles I've linked to. Is it because they don't fit your rhetoric?


Edited by suitkees - September 23 2021 at 12:12

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 Bottom line...You can't sustain a valid argument against Ivermectin.  And why would you want to?  Do you want to see more people die from Covid?

[/QUOTE]
Bottom line... You can't sustain a valid argument pro Ivermectin either.
[/QUOTE]

Here's over sixty recent Ivermectin studies. I think I just sustained a valid pro Ivermectin argument.  

https://c19ivermectin.com/
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 12:09
A recent scientific study at the university of Würzburg came to the following conclusion: "Die aktuelle Evidenz rechtfertigt keine Verwendung von Ivermectin zur Behandlung oder Prävention von Covid-19". Translation: "The current evidence does not justify the use of Ivermectin for the treatment or prevention of Covid-19". There, that's something scientific.

Here a link to the full article:



Edited by BaldFriede - September 23 2021 at 12:13


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Points: 6794 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:59
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

The article you supplied said that the Ivermectin study was withdrawn because of "Ethical Reasons"  What does that have to do with whether Ivermectin works or not? The western media has attacked Ivermectin as a Horse dewormer. It's true, Ivermectin works with horses, humans and other mammals. But that's not why the inventor of Ivermectin won the 2015 Nobel Prize for Medicine.  He won the Nobel Prize because Ivermectin destroys viruses in humans.

You're really rambling now (amalgamating many things; that's not scientific, that's rhetoric...). You know that Covid-19 didn't exist in 2015? Apparently, you still haven't followed the links to the authoritative and well sourced sites I gave you. You're talking to the wind now, not to me.

OMG. You again.  You don't know that Covid viruses have existed for millions of years. Covid (Coronaviruses  viruses are the second most common cause of the common cold...next the the #1 cause -rhinoviruses.)

  And yes, Ivermectin worked against Covid viruses before Covid-19.  That's one of the main reasons it won the 2015 Nobel Prize for Medicine. That's why scientists jumped on Ivermectin so quickly when Covid-19 emerged. "Gee, Ivermectin worked on Covid-19's Coronavirus cousins...maybe Ivermectin will work on Covid-19 too?"  Unless you dredge up with a valid, logical argument, I refuse to waste anymore time with you 
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:56
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I have a Biology degree and an RN degree. I've worked with Scientific method for decades.
Oh, nice, the authority argument. But apparently your "scientific method" has its flaws...
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You have all the data you need to suggest that Ivermectin works against Covid. If the Ivermectin sample was 800 people, I could lend some cred to your argument.  America's number of vaccinated falls far below 241 million. Using your Stork argument...Why should we believe in Vaccines?
You say it yourself: you have data to suggest... You are suggesting that the 241 million of inhabitants of Uttar Pradesh were part of a medical research group (sample). They weren't. You turn them into your statistics because it suits your argument, but it doesn't take into account other parameters at all. For example, Uttar Pradesh had also a major lockdown with rather important restrictions that probably also helped to prevent to spread the virus. The problem is only that it is so difficult to put into statistics, unless you would want to make believe that the lockdown measures in that state were responsible for the low number of cases beyond May. Why was it Invermectin and not the lockdown measures that kept the figures in Uttar Pradesh so low? Do you have a reasonable answer to that with your Biology degree and scientific methods?

In my opinion, you are dragging yourself into a lure just because you want to believe in it, not because it has much to do with reality, science (scientific methods) or being the result of "critical thinking".
Yep, I've studied biology since 1990. So sue me. 
I say "SUGGEST" because that's basic scientific method. Every measurement in scientific method has a "plus or minus factor"...even if the the plus or minus factor is less than an atom wide. A scientific argument that is statistically 99.99% probable uses the verb- suggests in the description. That's the way it is.  By the way, I did not write the articles. Over 40 articles, last time I looked.  

In a debate or argument, it's easy to say, " Your wrong!" However, it's difficult to argue the opposite point. Instead of attacking the messenger (Me) why don't you make a valid argument disproving Ivermectin's effectiveness against Covid.  The Uttar Pradesh scientists and government claim that Ivermectin is the main factor. Compare Uttar Pradesh to Countries that suffered Covid breakouts and have had more Lockdowns. You'll find that those countries have a higher percentage of Covid than Uttar Pradesh.  

Bottom Line- Shouldn't the lowest rate of Covid in the World be worthy of America and the UK conducting scientific studies As Soon as Possible on Ivermectin?  Don't you want to know the truth? Would it anger you if Ivermectin is extremely effective against Covid? 

Fact is Suitkees...You can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin in Uttar Pradesh. Where are your stats? Where is your scientific argument.  Stats that show Ivermectin does not work in Uttar Pradesh. I'm waiting. 
If you can prove that Ivermectin is NOT the reason that Uttar Pradesh defeated Covid....I will admit you're right. I'll change my reality. That's what a scientist does.  When confronted with scientific data that disproves a theory....A scientist changes their mind.  I always say, "It's Ok to be wrong...It's NOT OK to stay wrong." 
Were you also as 'passionate' about Hydroxychloroquine, after all, it was the first Miracle Cure wasn't it?

I've never mentioned Hydroxychloroquine on this thread. That said, I could teach a class on how it works. But to understand me, you'd need a background on zinc ionosphores and SARS-CoV-2 RNA-dependent RNA polymerase. You'd need to understand the mechanism for how zinc blocks the ensyme-RNA-dependent RNA polymerase from replicating the virus. You'd also need to know how hell Hydroxychloroquine fits into the process. 

 Bottom line...You can't sustain a valid argument against Ivermectin.  And why would you want to?  Do you want to see more people die from Covid?


Bottom line... You can't sustain a valid argument pro Ivermectin either.


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Points: 6794 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:49
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I have a Biology degree and an RN degree. I've worked with Scientific method for decades.
Oh, nice, the authority argument. But apparently your "scientific method" has its flaws...
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You have all the data you need to suggest that Ivermectin works against Covid. If the Ivermectin sample was 800 people, I could lend some cred to your argument.  America's number of vaccinated falls far below 241 million. Using your Stork argument...Why should we believe in Vaccines?
You say it yourself: you have data to suggest... You are suggesting that the 241 million of inhabitants of Uttar Pradesh were part of a medical research group (sample). They weren't. You turn them into your statistics because it suits your argument, but it doesn't take into account other parameters at all. For example, Uttar Pradesh had also a major lockdown with rather important restrictions that probably also helped to prevent to spread the virus. The problem is only that it is so difficult to put into statistics, unless you would want to make believe that the lockdown measures in that state were responsible for the low number of cases beyond May. Why was it Invermectin and not the lockdown measures that kept the figures in Uttar Pradesh so low? Do you have a reasonable answer to that with your Biology degree and scientific methods?

In my opinion, you are dragging yourself into a lure just because you want to believe in it, not because it has much to do with reality, science (scientific methods) or being the result of "critical thinking".
Yep, I've studied biology since 1990. So sue me. 
I say "SUGGEST" because that's basic scientific method. Every measurement in scientific method has a "plus or minus factor"...even if the the plus or minus factor is less than an atom wide. A scientific argument that is statistically 99.99% probable uses the verb- suggests in the description. That's the way it is.  By the way, I did not write the articles. Over 40 articles, last time I looked.  

In a debate or argument, it's easy to say, " Your wrong!" However, it's difficult to argue the opposite point. Instead of attacking the messenger (Me) why don't you make a valid argument disproving Ivermectin's effectiveness against Covid.  The Uttar Pradesh scientists and government claim that Ivermectin is the main factor. Compare Uttar Pradesh to Countries that suffered Covid breakouts and have had more Lockdowns. You'll find that those countries have a higher percentage of Covid than Uttar Pradesh.  

Bottom Line- Shouldn't the lowest rate of Covid in the World be worthy of America and the UK conducting scientific studies As Soon as Possible on Ivermectin?  Don't you want to know the truth? Would it anger you if Ivermectin is extremely effective against Covid? 

Fact is Suitkees...You can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin in Uttar Pradesh. Where are your stats? Where is your scientific argument.  Stats that show Ivermectin does not work in Uttar Pradesh. I'm waiting. 
If you can prove that Ivermectin is NOT the reason that Uttar Pradesh defeated Covid....I will admit you're right. I'll change my reality. That's what a scientist does.  When confronted with scientific data that disproves a theory....A scientist changes their mind.  I always say, "It's Ok to be wrong...It's NOT OK to stay wrong." 
Were you also as 'passionate' about Hydroxychloroquine, after all, it was the first Miracle Cure wasn't it?

I've never mentioned Hydroxychloroquine on this thread. That said, I could teach a class on how it works. But to understand me, you'd need a background on zinc ionosphores and SARS-CoV-2 RNA-dependent RNA polymerase. You'd need to understand the mechanism for how zinc blocks the ensyme-RNA-dependent RNA polymerase from replicating the virus. You'd also need to know how hell Hydroxychloroquine fits into the process. 

 Bottom line...You can't sustain a valid argument against Ivermectin.  And why would you want to?  Do you want to see more people die from Covid?
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Points: 9050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:44
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

The article you supplied said that the Ivermectin study was withdrawn because of "Ethical Reasons"  What does that have to do with whether Ivermectin works or not? The western media has attacked Ivermectin as a Horse dewormer. It's true, Ivermectin works with horses, humans and other mammals. But that's not why the inventor of Ivermectin won the 2015 Nobel Prize for Medicine.  He won the Nobel Prize because Ivermectin destroys viruses in humans.

You're really rambling now (amalgamating many things; that's not scientific, that's rhetoric...). You know that Covid-19 didn't exist in 2015? Apparently, you still haven't followed the links to the authoritative and well sourced sites I gave you. You're talking to the wind now, not to me.

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Points: 6794 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:35
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Fact is Suitkees...You can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin in Uttar Pradesh. Where are your stats? Where is your scientific argument.  Stats that show Ivermectin does not work in Uttar Pradesh. I'm waiting. 
If you can prove that Ivermectin is NOT the reason that Uttar Pradesh defeated Covid....I will admit you're right. I'll change my reality. That's what a scientist does.  When confronted with scientific data that disproves a theory....A scientist changes their mind.  I always say, "It's Ok to be wrong...It's NOT OK to stay wrong."

I see you added this later (which is OK, of course). No, I can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin, because I'm not a specialist. That's why I linked to authoritative sites, which you apperently didn't want to consult. You haven't proven (nobody has) that Ivermectin is working. Statistics aren't proving anything as long as they are not the result of a proper study (declaring that there are 241 million inhabitants in Uttar Pradesh and only relatively few cases is not a "study" but just juggling with statistics). Again: why isn't it due to the lockdown measures?

Since you like it when I copy/paste, here some other reading:
- From the Guardian (yes, I find that news source much more reliable than Natural News): an article about the unreliability of a "major" Ivermectin study.
- A quote from an Irish newspaper (The Journal): "Dr Kory [a critical care specialist based in the US state of Wisconsin] used a number of countries as examples of success stories. He referenced the state of Uttar Pradesh in India which began using ivermectin in August 2020. “They had a surge in April, in May, because of all of the migrant workers coming back from the cities, but they put it down very quickly with aggressive testing and ivermectin use,” he said. Dr Kory did not mention that the administration of Uttar Pradesh also introduced lockdown restrictions at the end of April to curb the spread of the virus, extending them a number of times across the entire month of May." You can read the full article here.



The article you supplied said that the Ivermectin study was withdrawn because of "Ethical Reasons"  What does that have to do with whether Ivermectin works or not? The western media has attacked Ivermectin as a Horse dewormer. It's true, Ivermectin works with horses, humans and other mammals. But that's not why the inventor of Ivermectin won the 2015 Nobel Prize for Medicine.  He won the Nobel Prize because Ivermectin destroys viruses in humans.

I think you don't want Ivermectin to work against Covid. Me? I couldn't care less what the name of the medicine is.  If chocolate milk worked against covid...I'd be pro chocolate milk. It just so happens the most convincing evidence suggests that Ivermectin works against covid.  Vitamin D seems to works. If your yonger than 75...that works. If your not obese...that works.  If you don't suffer from diabetes...that works too. 

Big Pharma doesn't want Ivermectin to work. Big Pharma can't make much money off of Ivermectin. It's cheap. The Private hospital where I work prescribes Ivermectin to patients. Our patients average 76 years of age. We haven't had a covid death since last December. We take Covid seriously. I get tested twice a week. All the heathcare workers at our hospital do.  I was tested yesterday. I'll be tested again next Monday and then again the following Friday. I've personally seen elderly patients recover within 48 hours from covid after Ivermectin. I got my doctor to prescribe Ivermectin. I keep it on hand in case I ever catch Covid.  I take Vitamin D.  I'm very lean. I'm not afraid of Covid. I am afraid of a President overturning Federal Law and mandating vaccines. Vaccines are the domain of the State. 
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Points: 18446 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:33
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I have a Biology degree and an RN degree. I've worked with Scientific method for decades.
Oh, nice, the authority argument. But apparently your "scientific method" has its flaws...
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You have all the data you need to suggest that Ivermectin works against Covid. If the Ivermectin sample was 800 people, I could lend some cred to your argument.  America's number of vaccinated falls far below 241 million. Using your Stork argument...Why should we believe in Vaccines?
You say it yourself: you have data to suggest... You are suggesting that the 241 million of inhabitants of Uttar Pradesh were part of a medical research group (sample). They weren't. You turn them into your statistics because it suits your argument, but it doesn't take into account other parameters at all. For example, Uttar Pradesh had also a major lockdown with rather important restrictions that probably also helped to prevent to spread the virus. The problem is only that it is so difficult to put into statistics, unless you would want to make believe that the lockdown measures in that state were responsible for the low number of cases beyond May. Why was it Invermectin and not the lockdown measures that kept the figures in Uttar Pradesh so low? Do you have a reasonable answer to that with your Biology degree and scientific methods?

In my opinion, you are dragging yourself into a lure just because you want to believe in it, not because it has much to do with reality, science (scientific methods) or being the result of "critical thinking".
Yep, I've studied biology since 1990. So sue me. 
I say "SUGGEST" because that's basic scientific method. Every measurement in scientific method has a "plus or minus factor"...even if the the plus or minus factor is less than an atom wide. A scientific argument that is statistically 99.99% probable uses the verb- suggests in the description. That's the way it is.  By the way, I did not write the articles. Over 40 articles, last time I looked.  

In a debate or argument, it's easy to say, " Your wrong!" However, it's difficult to argue the opposite point. Instead of attacking the messenger (Me) why don't you make a valid argument disproving Ivermectin's effectiveness against Covid.  The Uttar Pradesh scientists and government claim that Ivermectin is the main factor. Compare Uttar Pradesh to Countries that suffered Covid breakouts and have had more Lockdowns. You'll find that those countries have a higher percentage of Covid than Uttar Pradesh.  

Bottom Line- Shouldn't the lowest rate of Covid in the World be worthy of America and the UK conducting scientific studies As Soon as Possible on Ivermectin?  Don't you want to know the truth? Would it anger you if Ivermectin is extremely effective against Covid? 

Fact is Suitkees...You can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin in Uttar Pradesh. Where are your stats? Where is your scientific argument.  Stats that show Ivermectin does not work in Uttar Pradesh. I'm waiting. 
If you can prove that Ivermectin is NOT the reason that Uttar Pradesh defeated Covid....I will admit you're right. I'll change my reality. That's what a scientist does.  When confronted with scientific data that disproves a theory....A scientist changes their mind.  I always say, "It's Ok to be wrong...It's NOT OK to stay wrong." 
Were you also as 'passionate' about Hydroxychloroquine, after all, it was the first Miracle Cure wasn't it?
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:16
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Fact is Suitkees...You can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin in Uttar Pradesh. Where are your stats? Where is your scientific argument.  Stats that show Ivermectin does not work in Uttar Pradesh. I'm waiting. 
If you can prove that Ivermectin is NOT the reason that Uttar Pradesh defeated Covid....I will admit you're right. I'll change my reality. That's what a scientist does.  When confronted with scientific data that disproves a theory....A scientist changes their mind.  I always say, "It's Ok to be wrong...It's NOT OK to stay wrong."

I see you added this later (which is OK, of course). No, I can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin, because I'm not a specialist. That's why I linked to authoritative sites, which you apperently didn't want to consult. You haven't proven (nobody has) that Ivermectin is working. Statistics aren't proving anything as long as they are not the result of a proper study (declaring that there are 241 million inhabitants in Uttar Pradesh and only relatively few cases is not a "study" but just juggling with statistics). Again: why isn't it due to the lockdown measures?

Since you like it when I copy/paste, here some other reading:
- From the Guardian (yes, I find that news source much more reliable than Natural News): an article about the unreliability of a "major" Ivermectin study.
- A quote from an Irish newspaper (The Journal): "Dr Kory [a critical care specialist based in the US state of Wisconsin] used a number of countries as examples of success stories. He referenced the state of Uttar Pradesh in India which began using ivermectin in August 2020. “They had a surge in April, in May, because of all of the migrant workers coming back from the cities, but they put it down very quickly with aggressive testing and ivermectin use,” he said. Dr Kory did not mention that the administration of Uttar Pradesh also introduced lockdown restrictions at the end of April to curb the spread of the virus, extending them a number of times across the entire month of May." You can read the full article here.

There could be many reasons for the low number of cases in Uttar Pradesh. It could be that a huge percentage of the population there is naturally immune to Covid-19. It could be something in the eating habits. Just because two statistics appear similar does not mean there is a correlation between them. Hence my example of the stork population and the birthrate. It is definitely NOT scientific to assume cause and effect between Ivermectin and low case rate.


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Points: 6794 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:13

[/QUOTE]
If you really have such a degree then you should know that you need a double blind study for this.
[/QUOTE]

Double blind studies are preferable. However, a population of over 240 million people is a huge sample. Thousands of time bigger than most double blind studies. Certainly, a providence of 240 million people suffering only 0-2 Covid deaths a day, deserves American Scientific scrutiny. Why hasn't Biden checked out what Uttar Pradesh is doing to combat Covid.  Is it the vaccination rate?  Would you say that less than 10% vaccine rate suggests that vaccines are stopping Covid in Uttar Pradesh? However, when the Uttar Pradesh government distributed Ivermectin to the population...overnight Covid dropped to the lowest level in the world.  Don't you think that suggests that the rest of the World should conduct Double Blind studies on Ivermectin? Why isn't the American Government conducting Ivermectin Double Blind Studies?

How does scientific method begins.  A scientist sees a correlation between this and that. Like the scientist notices something like an apple falling on his head.  Or let's say a scientist notices that days go by (where there are zero covid deaths) in a population of 241 million people. The scientist asks himself," What is this place of 241 million people doing different than the rest of the world?"  

He finds out the State of 241 million people has an extremely low vaccination rate, yet the population has free access to Ivermectin.   The scientist makes predictions such as.. If we give Ivermectin to a large sample of people and we give a placebo to a large sample of people (control group)  from the same population...then I predict that the Ivermectin group will suffer less issues than the control group with Covid....Double Blind Test is preformed. After double blind test is performed,  the Scientist performs stat tests like a T-Test. Afterwards the scientist can make a statement with T-test percentages ...such as,"The data suggests there correlation between Ivermectin working against  Covid virus infections. The data suggests a of 98.7% (+ or - 1%) correlation.   

If Covid is the greatest emergency of our lifetimes, then Why isn't the rest of the world performing Ivermectin -Covid studies? Especially since Ivermectin seems to be working great in Uttar Pradesh.  What's more other Indian states have followed Uttar Pradesh'es example, and they too have experienced Covid in heavy decline.
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Points: 9050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:04
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Fact is Suitkees...You can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin in Uttar Pradesh. Where are your stats? Where is your scientific argument.  Stats that show Ivermectin does not work in Uttar Pradesh. I'm waiting. 
If you can prove that Ivermectin is NOT the reason that Uttar Pradesh defeated Covid....I will admit you're right. I'll change my reality. That's what a scientist does.  When confronted with scientific data that disproves a theory....A scientist changes their mind.  I always say, "It's Ok to be wrong...It's NOT OK to stay wrong."

I see you added this later (which is OK, of course). No, I can't make a valid argument against Ivermectin, because I'm not a specialist. That's why I linked to authoritative sites, which you apperently didn't want to consult. You haven't proven (nobody has) that Ivermectin is working. Statistics aren't proving anything as long as they are not the result of a proper study (declaring that there are 241 million inhabitants in Uttar Pradesh and only relatively few cases is not a "study" but just juggling with statistics). Again: why isn't it due to the lockdown measures?

Since you like it when I copy/paste, here some other reading:
- From the Guardian (yes, I find that news source much more reliable than Natural News): an article about the unreliability of a "major" Ivermectin study.
- A quote from an Irish newspaper (The Journal): "Dr Kory [a critical care specialist based in the US state of Wisconsin] used a number of countries as examples of success stories. He referenced the state of Uttar Pradesh in India which began using ivermectin in August 2020. “They had a surge in April, in May, because of all of the migrant workers coming back from the cities, but they put it down very quickly with aggressive testing and ivermectin use,” he said. Dr Kory did not mention that the administration of Uttar Pradesh also introduced lockdown restrictions at the end of April to curb the spread of the virus, extending them a number of times across the entire month of May." You can read the full article here.

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Points: 9050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 10:50
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Bottom Line- Shouldn't the lowest rate of Covid in the World be worthy of America and the UK conducting scientific studies As Soon as Possible on Ivermectin?  Don't you want to know the truth? Would it anger you if Ivermectin is extremely effective against Covid? 


No, not at all, that would be a fantastic thing. It just isn't the case, yet. Medical studies rather show that Ivermectin is not effective against Covid-19 (see my links above to two of your national health institutions). You don't address my question about how to differentiate the impact of Ivermectin and the lockdown measures in those statistics regarding Uttar Pradesh, probably because we just can't (yet, because we didn't do that research, yet), which means we just don't know. Still, you privilege the Ivermectin thing, probably because this is what "your" media (those that you select to link here) promote and what you want to believe in because it is going against the grain of mainstream (international) media and corresponds to what Trumpian Republicans want to make believe (without proper scientific base!).

I'm very sad to read that about 60% of the Republican base think it is important to support the 2020 election lie. Shows that sincerity and honesty don't have much to do anymore in Republican thinking. And this all overflows to other domains of society, notably health care. I've said it before, but this refusal to ponder is rather incomprehensible to me.

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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2021 at 10:43
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Which government? Russia's and China's don't count. LOL

I'm not going to do your research for you Steven.  Why don't you look it up? 

That's probably a good thing Steve. I certainly find her research skills to be lacking, and that's about as polite a comment I can make on it.

EDIT: Had to fix the BBcode quotes that she keeps messing up.

The main point isn't my skills.  The main point is...Ivermectin works against Covid.   So much so that India's larges providence- Uttar Pradesh suffers only 24 cases of Covid a day and just 0-2 deaths.  If these stories from Uttar Pradesh are Untrue, than I'll be sad.  But I will immediately update my reality. 

You guys criticize my skills and opinions without addressing the main point. It's as if your are crossing the road and a someone yells at you and  points toward an 18 wheeler bearing down on you.  Instead of looking where the person points, you criticize their T-shirt. 

I respect you Dude. We like the same albums. I don't care if you disagree with me. If my story about Uttar Pradesh is true...would you think that to be important? Can you prove it's not true? Do you care if a cheap, Nobel Prize of Medicine winning drug like Ivermectin works well against Covid?  Or, do you care more about your Political team winning?  Let me know.  There's no use discussing issues with someone who values their political team more than reality.  

Despite popular opinion, I never voted for Trump. Just because,  I didn't believe the Russia Conspiracy does not mean I was a Trump voter. I hated Trump for doing nothing to stop censorship.  These vaccines are the vaccines that Trump cheered for.  I can post you film footage of Cuomo, Kamala Harris, and Joe Biden slamming the same vaccines that they cheer for now.  The difference?  Trump was in power when Cuomo,  K. Harris, Biden said they would not take the vaccine. Now that they are in power....They love the vaccine.

Even if the story of Uttar Pradesh is true - what does it actually prove? That there is a direct correlation between using Ivermectin and the rate of Covid-infections? Certainly not. When the increase of birthrate in some country over a given time span coincides with a population rise of storks in the same time span it does not prove that storks bring babies either.


I have a Biology degree and an RN degree. I've worked with Scientific method for decades. As an undergraduate, I worked in an epidemiology lab.  I suggest you familiarize yourself with scientific method. If you did that than you would know-

 When your scientific sample is 241 million people ( That's Huge!) and your vaccination rate is less than 10% (significantly less than Western Countries). And Ivermectin is the main drug that you attack Covid with...You have all the data you need to suggest that Ivermectin works against Covid.  If the Ivermectin sample was 800 people, I could lend some cred to your argument.  America's number of vaccinated falls far below 241 million. Using your Stork argument...Why should we believe in Vaccines? 

Analogies make poor arguments.  What do Storks have to do with babies or Covid. When it comes to science...Nothing. However, Ivermectin- which won the inventor the 2015 Nobel Prize for Medicine ( At most, they only give one Medical Nobel Prize a year)- has everything to do science and with destroying Covid viruses. You'll have to better than storks. 

Compare Uttar Pradesh with USA, UK, France, Italy, and Israel. 

If you really have such a degree then you should know that you need a double blind study for this.


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