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How to define and classify "Progressive Rock"?

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Necrotica View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 21:29
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

True-Prog
copyright

New PA subgenre, perhaps? Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 21:28
True-Prog
copyright
Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 21:26
What the hell is even going on in this thread right now? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 21:19

Well, suitkees and Nick, you can discuss this issue with yourselves, and you'll surely agree LOL

- like other issues . LOL  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 16:43
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:


.....and then starting from the nineties it seems that prog has been reborn, and today, if we consider prog every form of contamination, prog is rampant, but in reality is no longer true prog. It is the music that changes, that keeps up with the time.....

Overall, therefore, I tend to consider only (or almost) the albums of the seventies to be masterpieces of true prog.......

Clap
 

For me this is pretty much it. True Progressive Rock in the late 60s to late 70's, from there it turned into ProgRock and 90s forward it is rock music with prog tendencies, but not true Prog let alone Progressive.

It's fairly simple for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 16:17
^ Thank you! I almost gave up hope, because it took the jury a whole week to deliberate, but I'm happy to be part of this "exclusive club" of David_D's excluded people - I know I'm in good company. Beer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 15:49
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


By now, I've read the last posts of yours directed to me, suitkees, and I can tell you that you're qualified to be put 
on my list of the ignored. Shocked


Only the best make that list! Congratulations, Kees! 🎉

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 15:10

By now, I've read the last posts of yours directed to me, suitkees, and I can tell you that you're certainly qualified to be put 
on my list of the ignored. Shocked







Edited by David_D - May 25 2022 at 15:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 08:00
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

...
Prog was characterized by providing rock music that was not just entertainment: the songs became long and elaborate thanks to the best technique of the musicians, often virtuosos, until they became suites, the musical score was refined, included tempo changes and contaminations with classical music and jazz, and another characteristic of prog is the care for arrangements, for ethnic and electronic instruments.
...

Hi,

This is the part that is missing in the definitions of "progressive" and "prog" music, mainly because the definitions have tried to make it look like just another pop/rock song out there in the commercial area of music.

And I imagine that we may have, sooner or later, include a slight discussion of "commercial music" as opposed to something else ... since in the end, the majority of stuff listed and discussed here is commercial, and sometimes not sure it should be included as progressive anymore. I accept ELP and KC a lot more than I do Genesis or Yes, because these last 2 gave up what got them there in the first place, and went "pop" as in "popular" and in at least one example, making it look like they were still doing the classical stuff of their early days, but it was just a rehash of many moments done before! Mr. Howe was now doing the same thing over again! Mr. Collins and Co. were now doing the same thing.

It's a tough area, since there was so much more in the arts that influenced progressive music, that almost ALL the rock fans here do not understand, or refuse to look at ... and I often state that heck ... film was 10 years ahead of its time in terms of "progressive" and "art-rock" in a lot of the new film stuff that appeared in the late 50's that went on to influence so many in the 60's. Jazz is another massive experiment, and how the individuality in so many of them, all of a sudden showed us much more about music than we EVER knew. The same thing about the guys on the road (Keouac and bunch) ... and how they showed us something that we still can not relate to! 

Rock music was late ... but the main reason would be attributed (more than likely) to the film studios owning all the copyrights and music controls, which prevented a lot of things from being released and found out properly ... and of course the film studios made sure their "stars" could sing to make even more money and keep them "current" with the media and fans!

It's a messy road ... but it's really hard to not think that they worked together.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 02:11

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for the new contributions to this blog, and I find them interesting. Star

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 15:09
I consider prog a musical movement that fermented in the years 1967-68 (thanks to psychedelia and rock-blues jam) and established itself in 1969 with In the Court of The Crimson King. It dominated the European rock scene, spreading from the UK to the continent (in Germany it had a parallel development with a very particular psychedelic music), in the years 1971-76, proposing itself as an intellectual alternative to classic rock (and folk, and blues), and to songwriter of some authors-performers. Its decline, which began around 1975-76 was rapid, and in fact died around 1977-78 with the advent of punk and new wave. Disco-music also arrived in the eighties, along with synth-pop. It was an essentially European phenomenon, even if reflections have been seen in the US.

Prog was characterized by providing rock music that was not just entertainment: the songs became long and elaborate thanks to the best technique of the musicians, often virtuosos, until they became suites, the musical score was refined, included tempo changes and contaminations with classical music and jazz, and another characteristic of prog is the care for arrangements, for ethnic and electronic instruments.

In the eighties prog disappeared but some groups tried to exhume it. With globalization, music became more and more contaminated at the level of musical genres and arrangements, and then starting from the nineties it seems that prog has been reborn, and today, if we consider prog every form of contamination, prog is rampant, but in reality is no longer true prog. It is the music that changes, that keeps up with the time. Avant-garde music, post-rock, electronic music, jazz-rock-fusion are not true prog, they are developments parallel to it and only to the extent that they are inserted in rock plots and in the song form, however dilated and distorted, I consider them true prog.

Overall, therefore, I tend to consider only (or almost) the albums of the seventies to be masterpieces of true prog. The more prog groups that today fascinate prog lovers, I fear they are very epigonic (such as Anglagard, Wobbler, All Traps on Earth seem to me), they have added more and more complexity, virtuosity, sumptuousness of the arrangements and of the studio production to the prog: not so much in terms of musical contents.

After all, it is part of the history of artistic movements: realism was born in the nineteenth century, at a literary level it becomes naturalism ("naturalismo") in France and realism ("verismo") in Italy, but even now there are realist literary works: they have very little of the nineteenth-century classics. The works of 2000 are more experimental, also because before there were few artists, now there are many, and therefore you must devise everything to get noticed, it happens to all the arts, including prog music.




Edited by jamesbaldwin - May 24 2022 at 15:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2022 at 12:35

Actually, besides what I've already written here, I'd say that my passion for terms and definitions is a natural part of my 
passion for music, and my big desire to understand the history, the evolvements and the diversity there have been in the 
world of music. To be able to do that, terms and definitions are tools not to do without, likewise it is in other arts, 
humanities and sciences. I'd say as well that terms and definitions, and my occupation with them, have quite a lot 
increased my appreciating of music, and I'm very fond of that kind theoretical doing.




Edited by David_D - May 22 2022 at 13:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2022 at 08:52
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

David, my intent was humor. I apologize if you think my posts are threatening. I assure you that they are not.

Thank you very much for this respond, Progaardvark. Smile

But I would surely like to know what is it all about. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 08:59
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

David, my intent was humor. I apologize if you think my posts are threatening. I assure you that they are not.

Thank you very much for this respond, Progaardvark. Smile

and my apologies to you Embarrassed 


Edited by David_D - May 20 2022 at 09:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 08:46
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

David, my intent was humor. I apologize if you think my posts are threatening. I assure you that they are not.

Thank you very much for this respond, Progaardvark. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 07:13
David, my intent was humor. I apologize if you think my posts are threatening. I assure you that they are not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 06:46

By now, I've read almost all the last posts (of course not the one from Nick), and my previous post is maybe best directed 
towards those who might react like SteveG.







Edited by David_D - May 20 2022 at 06:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 01:21
Well, friends, I must admit that I haven't read the last posts except the one from SteveG, but would you like me to write the whole, long story which preceded my statement, a story about all that I've been exposed to on PA, and including quotations of posts and PMs like for instance the very last one from progaardvark - which needs though to be seen in context for the right interpretation of it as a warning or maybe even a threat pointed at me with the purpose to prevent me from certain actions like the one concerning suitkees:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

My typewritten rumblings are a double-slit experiment. Paul just happened to be a random observer and out popped a gibbertron, a particle I'm known to emit during certain hours of the day when the helix of the moon is eclipsed by steamed waffle bags. The more you observe my experiment, the more gibbertrons you're going to see. I would recommend observations in moderation. Like most subways, salt intake should be monitored.

Whatever, I'd like you to be aware of that payback time has come. Stern Smile

It would probably take long time for me to write such a story, but I could write it in a new blog titled "Life of David on PA", and send it as many posts, maybe divided in parts or chapters.
Such a story would certainly have an entertainment value, but if you would like me to write it, I'd surely say that Ian is much wiser than you.

I'd like also to remind you that in another thread I've written:
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

It takes some time before I forget all the things that have happened to me here, and nobody ever has said "excuse" to me or given me an explanation.

So wouldn't you rather just help me forgetting all that stuff, as I'm not a person used to looking for revenge, and so I can continue all the good work, I've done for PA, or...

Anyway, you better remember that this blog, like all blogs, is "opened discussion" and it gets quite a few views, and it might be a good idea to check out probable new editions of this post. 


Edited by David_D - May 20 2022 at 06:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 08:12
Oh, brother.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 06:00
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Whatever, I'd like you to be aware of that payback time has come. Stern Smile

As nobody fogs with me!

DtR

Well that is going to be an issue for me. I'm not very good at making my own weather systems. You'll have to make your own fog I'm afraid. I think I accidentally made a cold front with a gastric zephyr. It was embarrassing and I ended up hiding in the office supplies aisle at Walmart.

Oh, and no worries about payback. My musings are entirely free. I might be in the laundry ring and look like my trash motors are made out of cosmology, but I usually have something to say about "fountain what the if the a in but of nose high the hey pants be the." Wink

I, on the other hand, am very good at making my own weather systems - at least, when it comes to fog. Ever since covid, brain fog has been an issue. Thankfully it is no longer the all encompassing curtain or impenetrability that it was during or immediately afterward, but the cognitive effects of (long)covid have been long-lasting, and may well be forever. It has affected my physically, too, but the I find it far more of a struggle to adapt to a worsened mental health, than the worsened physical health. It is easier to adapt to a life where I know my limits physically, than it is to keep finding out that I can’t think the way I used to be able to. I find it quite depressing at times. My fog is no longer a pea-souper, but there is definitely still a veil of mist at all times, that sometimes thickens and leaves me momentarily lost.

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