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rushfan4 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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 Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:30 |
I always thought it would be interesting to make our country a true democracy by allowing us to choose on our tax returns where we want our tax dollars to go. Just like when they are creating a budget Congress would choose 10 or 20 areas for our tax dollars to go, but we the taxpayers would elect which of these areas that our personal dollars went to. There would either have to be an I Don't Care option in which case Congress would be able to allocate these dollars to the area where it is most underfunded. A problem with that would of course be that the wealthiest people would also be the ones who pay in the most taxes so therefore they would have the biggest say on where the tax dollars go. I'd be curious to see how that worked out however and see how different it is then how the Congress allocates our tax dollars today.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:27 |
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Yeah, when it comes to tax dollars you can pretend your money is going to bloated defense spending and the Iraq war and I'll be more than happy for mine to help people.
Edited by Slartibartfast - September 03 2009 at 21:28
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:26 |
LOL, oh trust me, I saw the additions. Quite witty. This one, though . . . the cat . . . it's just plain . . . awesome! I really like it. 
Edited by p0mt3 - September 03 2009 at 21:27
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:23 |
 stonebeard wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Re: socialized medicine and "rights"
It makes no sense to me to see people defend such a thing as socialized medicine as an inherent "right." No one ever likes to discuss the philosophy behind things. Does it make sense that someone has the right to a portion of what someone else earns to pay for ailments, no matter where they com from?. Simply, health care is not an inherent right, in my mind, let alone universal health care. It may be a good platform for a society, but people get bogged down with loaded language.
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I'm not asking to drive in someone else's car or live in someone else's house. I'm asking to be able to keep myself alive without being rich. Is that really so hard for people to grasp?
So you're saying it isn't a right for everybody to have the equal chance of staying healthy and alive?
You're sick.
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No one can possibly have an equal chance of staying healthy or alive. A lot of it is genetic and uncontrollable. I'm saying no one has a stake in my earnings by rights. It seems nonsensical to say so. If there were a natural forest that anyone could enter and that would cure their sicknesses, everyone of course should have an equal opportunity to enter it. It wouldn't be only for those who could pay a fee to enter. But that's not where universal health care comes from, does it? It all costs something to someone. I just find the concept of a "right to something" murky and beside the point.
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I couldn't disagree with you more. I personally wouldn't care if my tax money went to helping other people. I don't consider it as somebody else having a 'stake in my earnings'. Now if somebody argued that everybody else had the 'right' to make love to my wife, bathe in my shower, sleep in my bed, watch my tv, etc. Then I would consider it as such. But no one is saying that. Your tax dollars are at times going to go towards something you don't personally subscribe to no matter how much you rant and rave about it. That's how this society works. Wouldn't you rather have your tax dollars go towards something that is at least MORALLY right? Or is it merely the 'principal of the thing' that bothers you, despite all the people it could help? 
Edited by p0mt3 - September 03 2009 at 21:25
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:18 |
It's all your fault, I replaced it with some funnier ones.   
Edited by Slartibartfast - September 03 2009 at 21:27
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:17 |
p0mt3 wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Re: socialized medicine and "rights"
It makes no sense to me to see people defend such a thing as socialized medicine as an inherent "right." No one ever likes to discuss the philosophy behind things. Does it make sense that someone has the right to a portion of what someone else earns to pay for ailments, no matter where they com from?. Simply, health care is not an inherent right, in my mind, let alone universal health care. It may be a good platform for a society, but people get bogged down with loaded language.
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I'm not asking to drive in someone else's car or live in someone else's house. I'm asking to be able to keep myself alive without being rich. Is that really so hard for people to grasp?
So you're saying it isn't a right for everybody to have the equal chance of staying healthy and alive?
You're sick.
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No one can possibly have an equal chance of staying healthy or alive. A lot of it is genetic and uncontrollable. I'm saying no one has a stake in my earnings by rights. It seems nonsensical to say so. If there were a natural forest that anyone could enter and that would cure their sicknesses, everyone of course should have an equal opportunity to enter it. It wouldn't be only for those who could pay a fee to enter. But that's not where universal health care comes from, does it? It all costs something to someone. I just find the concept of a "right to something" murky and beside the point.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:16 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
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ROFL! Thanks for that! I needed a really hard laugh!
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:09 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:08 |
stonebeard wrote:
Re: socialized medicine and "rights"
It makes no sense to me to see people defend such a thing as socialized medicine as an inherent "right." No one ever likes to discuss the philosophy behind things. Does it make sense that someone has the right to a portion of what someone else earns to pay for ailments, no matter where they com from?. Simply, health care is not an inherent right, in my mind, let alone universal health care. It may be a good platform for a society, but people get bogged down with loaded language.
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I'm not asking to drive in someone else's car or live in someone else's house. I'm asking to be able to keep myself alive without being rich. Is that really so hard for people to grasp? So you're saying it isn't a right for everybody to have the equal chance of staying healthy and alive? You're sick.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:05 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
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 Wow, a forum image like that actually exists?
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:05 |
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Re: socialized medicine and "rights"
It makes no sense to me to see people defend such a thing as socialized medicine as an inherent "right." No one ever likes to discuss the philosophy behind things. Does it make sense that someone has the right to a portion of what someone else earns to pay for ailments, no matter where they com from?. Simply, health care is not an inherent right, in my mind, let alone universal health care. It may be a good platform for a society, but people get bogged down with loaded language.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:05 |
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I'm right and white, sure...but I'm more of the brown pants kind of patriot really...
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:03 |
Edited by Slartibartfast - September 03 2009 at 21:14
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:01 |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 21:00 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 20:58 |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 20:56 |
Alex: Yeah, sorry, I sometimes forget some of you guys are younger than I think you are! We'll make it soft drinks then!!  Nuthin' wrong with that!
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 20:56 |
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Why hello ladies. I'm free* all night long!
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 20:54 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: September 03 2009 at 20:53 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Padraic wrote:
micky wrote:
off on a tangent.... but I am the curious sort.... I might be ignored... but I would be at the risk of an interesting tangent...
I am curious just how much personal experience do you all have...that seem to have such a high degree of interest.. and presumably knowledge on the subject
quick show of hands..err... posts..... how many here have insurance under our current system... if you don't.. why....
how many have had to use it. ... for what.... and were you.. as a CUSTOMER.. satisfied.
I'll start....
I ...as one who had employer provided insurance.. wasn't satisfied when my ex-wife got a infection that went septic... and she was in ICU for a week after she nearly died (after being misdiagnosed I might add). At the end .. we were presented a bill for THOUSANDS of dollars.... insurance only covered 90% of the total....that was in the fine print.. not that we had much of a choice.. since insurance from other providers for a family of 5 would have meant I was working to pay for insurance...
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timidly raises hand....
I guess I'll probably be in the minority here, but I am highly satisfied with my insurance. They cover everything and my co-pays are pretty low. And hell yes I have had to use it - labor and delivery services for my two kids weren't cheap, and my eldest son spent a week in a hospital when he was six months old....that was a bill I would have had a tough time paying (would have wiped me out, really). That's why I'm for at the very, very bare minimum some sort of universal catastrophic coverage - no one should have to be bankrupted or wiped out because they or their children got seriously ill.
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. . . Just a little asterisk, here . . .
labor and delivery services are free* in England. 
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*It's just like those advertisements where they say it's free but there are tons of hidden fees... in this case, taxes.
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Do you support universal healthcare?
