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JD View Drop Down
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Points: 18446 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2021 at 06:33
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Please include the quote in context where Trump touted ingesting bleach and Lysol. I'd like to see that video. Steven, I'll leave Progarchives forever if you can post a video of Trump touting ingesting bleach and or Lysol.  
BYE-BYE !!!





Edited by JD - October 05 2021 at 06:34
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Points: 14698 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2021 at 06:04
@omphaloskepsis: I don't buy that 85% number. Sure not all counted Covid deaths are really due to Covid (as no vaccine is perfect, no number is perfect either), but having 85% of those dead shortly after contracting Covid from other causes would be a massive massive coincidence, don't you think? OK you're saying some of these haven't even contracted Covid, but numbers you don't have and can't have. Same issue anyway for people who developed symptoms of myocarditis or anything else after vaccination.
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I know it's at least 85%.
That looks like a pretty ridiculous statement. You know what it takes to nail down such a number in a scientifically acceptable way? And even then there's uncertainty. Neither for this one nor for your 50% myocarditis mortality statement I can find anything. And as said before, not only the vaccine, also Covid raises the chances of having myocarditis.



Edited by Lewian - October 05 2021 at 06:04
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2021 at 06:03
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Ah, Trump, Dems and the time warp. Yes, it's true that Trump touted the vaccines while they were being developed, along with the useless Hydroxychloroquine, as well as ingesting bleach and Lysol. That doesn't make for feelings of confidence. And the Dems reacted accordingly. 

Please include the quote in context where Trump touted ingesting bleach and Lysol. I'd like to see that video. Steven, I'll leave Progarchives forever if you can post a video of Trump touting ingesting bleach and or Lysol.  
Trump suggested that Bleach and Lysol could be good for the Covid virus. As the only way it can get into your body is by some form of ingestion, be it oral, transdermal, etc., the result is the same. Putting it in your body. Now, please leave.
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Points: 6341 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2021 at 05:56
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Ah, Trump, Dems and the time warp. Yes, it's true that Trump touted the vaccines while they were being developed, along with the useless Hydroxychloroquine, as well as ingesting bleach and Lysol. That doesn't make for feelings of confidence. And the Dems reacted accordingly. 

Please include the quote in context where Trump touted ingesting bleach and Lysol. I'd like to see that video. Steven, I'll leave Progarchives forever if you can post a video of Trump touting ingesting bleach and or Lysol.  


Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 05 2021 at 05:58
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Ah, Trump, Dems and the time warp. Yes, it's true that Trump touted the vaccines while they were being developed, along with the useless Hydroxychloroquine, as well as ingesting bleach and Lysol. That doesn't make for feelings of confidence. And the Dems reacted accordingly. 
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Points: 6341 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2021 at 05:46
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:


1. The Risk of vaccine side effects for an obese 75 year old diabetes, heart patient is low compared to Covid. 
2. The Risk of vaccine side effects for young men is greater than the danger of dying from Covid. Many young men have been struck with myocarditis and Pericarditis. That's inflammation of the heart muscle.  There's a 50% mortality rate at 5 years for myocarditis and Pericarditis. More children died from drowning since Covid than of Covid. The risk dying from side effects is greater for folks under 40 than of Covid. 
Deaths from Covid age 18-29 in the US (29 September): 3,573, 30-39: 10,324. I have not seen numbers of people affected seriously by vaccination anywhere near that high.    

Myocarditis as far as I know is mild in most cases. Googling brings up mortality between 8 and 20%, not sure where the 50% is from. Furthermore you also find information stating that Covid infection increases the risk of Myocarditis.

"More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause."

(Note that far more people have been vaccinated than contracted Covid.)

"As of September 22, 2021, VAERS has received 1,541 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 and younger who received COVID-19 vaccine. Most cases have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), particularly in male adolescents and young adults. Through follow-up, including medical record reviews, CDC and FDA have confirmed 892 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis."
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3. (...)
 

4. (...)
Totally irrelevant to my posting
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5. You guessed 100,000 deaths.  Government Stats and President Joe Biden claim that the chances of a vaccinated person being admitted to a hospital for Covid is 1/160,000.  According to government stats, 64% of the population has been vaccinated. That's 210,000,000 people. If you divide the number of vaccinated by the odds of a vaccinated person being admitted to a hospital for Covid you get a total of 1,312 people.  That's not dead people. That's the number of vaccinated people the government predicts will be admitted to the hospital for Covid. 1,312 people.  How many of those people will catch Covid from other Vaccinated people?  If you catch Covid...you're contagious. 
This misses my point. I was guessing the number of people who'd die more overall from Covid, including unvaccinated, and including people who'd otherwise not catch Covid if there was no policy whatsoever to enforce being vaccinated at least in some roles and some places. Obviously I haven't defined precisely what policies I'm talking about because there are many options (I wrote that the number is made up out of thin air, but the air is not quite as thin as your response suggests). For the record, I'm against general mandatory vaccination, but as I wrote for some jobs and in some places for those who don't have "natural immunity" (even though this isn't really immunity) bring it on.  
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Tens of millions of people died for Freedom in World War II. Was it worth it? 

They died being killed by the opponents of freedom, trying to stop them. Those who die from Covid for sure by contracting it do nothing to stop Covid (some of them, if anything, rather do the opposite).

I salute you for discussing the issue intelligently. I appreciate rational debate. 


Historically men who suffer from Myocarditis have a 50% mortality rate after 5 years. Of course, 5 years have not passed yet concerning the young men who have contracted myocarditis from Covid vaccination. That said, heart damage is no small thing. Especially at a young age. Heart muscle regeneration is possible but proceeds exceedingly slow.  Myocarditis does not bode well for extending your life. How does it happen? The Protein spikes coded for by the vaccine RNA tend to migrate from the muscle site of vaccination to body organs such as the heart, liver, ovaries, and testes. 

 Because of the massive amount of vaccine shots, many of the vaccines are given inappropriately. The vaccine should be given into the muscle and NOT a vein.  Muscle has vessels running through out the tissue. A significant number of folks giving the vaccines are NOT asperating the shot to see if they've entered a vein. If you jab someone and asperate blood, you should discard the shot and do it again. Perhaps faulty technique has something to do with some of the side effects. You can read about it in this study-

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab707/6353927


How many of the Covid-19 deaths among the 18-40 crowd were accompanied by comorbidities? I'll bet the number was as high as 90%. I know it's at least 85%. I've seen a 400lb man stroke out. His corpse tested positive for Covid, so he goes down as a Covid Death.  There is a huge difference between someone dying because of Covid and someone dying WITH Covid. The Federal government encouraged the hospitals to report Covid deaths by giving the hospital thousands of dollars per covid patient and even more money if the hospital put the patient on a ventilator. Factoring in a greed motivation of over $10,000 dollars per patient, hospitals changed cancer, heart, stroke, diabetes, and kidney disease deaths to Covid deaths. The death rate is grossly inflated by such activity.  U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield acknowledged during a House hearing, that COVID-19 data could be inflated because hospitals receive a monetary gain by reporting COVID-19 cases.  As part of a federal stimulus bill passed under President Trump, Medicare is paying hospitals 20% more than standard rates for COVID-19 patients.

Flu deaths dropped by 97% in 2020! Sure social distancing and masks contributed to some of the decrease in flu. Yet, when the CDC monetizes hospitals to diagnose Covid.  If you read the CDC guideline you'll notice that a positive Covid test is NOT mandatory for diagnosis. Suspicion of Covid is good enough. At $13,000 per Covid patient, How many flu patients were diagnosed as Covid? During the week of Valentine's 2021 there were a total of 17 cases of flu...in the entire USA!  Washington State reported zero flu deaths during the 2020/2021 season!

Although Covid vaccines have more side effects than past vaccines, that is NOT my main argument. I argue that the Covid death count is grossly inflated. That said, senior citizens with comorbidities are at risk for Covid death, flu death, or pneumonia.  Like I said, more children die from drowning than of Covid. Why not protect the consenting elderly with comorbidities ?  Wouldn't that be more efficient?  In my Texas county of over 2 million people...There have been zero covid deaths in the under 18 group. 

Covid has been politicized. When Trump was in power Biden, Vice president Harris, Gov. Coumo and many other democrats went on camera and said, (That they did NOT trust the vaccine) The exact vaccine that Biden mandates. Pfizer than gave Biden $381,000. Last week Biden goes live on TV and gets a third booster vaccine. It was a Pfizer commercial. We're supposed to Trust Pfizer- a Big Pharma that has paid out Billions in fines for fraud and lying about the products?

Don't get me wrong. I hate Trump for pushing the vaccines before proper testing had been conducted. The vaccines are a government weapon to force folks to bend the knee. Millions of folks fear that the government will use Covid fear to institute a Totalitarian government. Complete with vaccine passports. Another thing Biden said was illegal and he would never institute.     Trump used the vaccine for political currency and Biden hated the vaccine. Biden gets power and Biden federally mandates vaccines. That's not constitutional. Vaccines are under state control.  I predict the Supreme Court will overturn Biden's mandate. In Australia you can't travel more than 3 miles from your home without getting fined thousands of dollars and/or arrested. Is that where the USA is headed? I hope not.








Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 05 2021 at 05:55
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Here we go again. The VAERS figure for "Covid deaths" is the required documentation of any  deaths that ocured, regardless of the reason, after receiving the Covid vaccine. That does not mean that the vaccine was the cause of those deaths. Only 3 deaths, directly related to the J&J vaccine, were reported so far. From the VAERS:

  • Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths pdf icon[1.4 MB, 40 pages].
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Points: 10261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2021 at 04:21
Originally posted by ProfPanglos ProfPanglos wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by ProfPanglos ProfPanglos wrote:

When I was in high school (graduated in '84) the catchphrase of the radical left was "Question Authority."

Funny how things change.  Now that the radical left is entirely mainstream and even "establishment" - well, don't you dare question them!  LMAO.


Then why in the heck would you want to live in Seattle?
You should move to the south, we aren't very left wing, but you will still find plenty of amusing authority figures and their efforts to control that which they can not. Try Tennessee, home of the government mandated truly baffling bathroom sign for those who are afraid the he in the stall next door is actually a she.

Haha, I guess I should update my profile sometime.  I moved to Texas over 2 years ago.  And even here in Austin (the "blue dot in the red state") it is a total breath of fresh air compared to Seattle.  Seattle's a joke, I'd never go back.

I have said this many times, but it can't be repeated often enough: What is considered to be "radical left" in the USA would be considered to be firmly in the political middle in most European countries, for example Germany, France or the UK.


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Points: 14698 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2021 at 03:39
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:


1. The Risk of vaccine side effects for an obese 75 year old diabetes, heart patient is low compared to Covid. 
2. The Risk of vaccine side effects for young men is greater than the danger of dying from Covid. Many young men have been struck with myocarditis and Pericarditis. That's inflammation of the heart muscle.  There's a 50% mortality rate at 5 years for myocarditis and Pericarditis. More children died from drowning since Covid than of Covid. The risk dying from side effects is greater for folks under 40 than of Covid. 
Deaths from Covid age 18-29 in the US (29 September): 3,573, 30-39: 10,324. I have not seen numbers of people affected seriously by vaccination anywhere near that high.    

Myocarditis as far as I know is mild in most cases. Googling brings up mortality between 8 and 20%, not sure where the 50% is from. Furthermore you also find information stating that Covid infection increases the risk of Myocarditis.

"More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause."

(Note that far more people have been vaccinated than contracted Covid.)

"As of September 22, 2021, VAERS has received 1,541 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 and younger who received COVID-19 vaccine. Most cases have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), particularly in male adolescents and young adults. Through follow-up, including medical record reviews, CDC and FDA have confirmed 892 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis."
From https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html 
Quote
3. (...)
 

4. (...)
Totally irrelevant to my posting
Quote
5. You guessed 100,000 deaths.  Government Stats and President Joe Biden claim that the chances of a vaccinated person being admitted to a hospital for Covid is 1/160,000.  According to government stats, 64% of the population has been vaccinated. That's 210,000,000 people. If you divide the number of vaccinated by the odds of a vaccinated person being admitted to a hospital for Covid you get a total of 1,312 people.  That's not dead people. That's the number of vaccinated people the government predicts will be admitted to the hospital for Covid. 1,312 people.  How many of those people will catch Covid from other Vaccinated people?  If you catch Covid...you're contagious. 
This misses my point. I was guessing the number of people who'd die more overall from Covid, including unvaccinated, and including people who'd otherwise not catch Covid if there was no policy whatsoever to enforce being vaccinated at least in some roles and some places. Obviously I haven't defined precisely what policies I'm talking about because there are many options (I wrote that the number is made up out of thin air, but the air is not quite as thin as your response suggests). For the record, I'm against general mandatory vaccination, but as I wrote for some jobs and in some places for those who don't have "natural immunity" (even though this isn't really immunity) bring it on.  
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Tens of millions of people died for Freedom in World War II. Was it worth it? 

They died being killed by the opponents of freedom, trying to stop them. Those who die from Covid for sure by contracting it do nothing to stop Covid (some of them, if anything, rather do the opposite).
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Points: 65248 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 19:20
Originally posted by ProfPanglos ProfPanglos wrote:

When I was in high school (graduated in '84) the catchphrase of the radical left was "Question Authority."
Funny how things change.  Now that the radical left is entirely mainstream and even "establishment" - well, don't you dare question them!  LMAO.

Well the extreme right was in charge for so long and was an unmitigated disaster, so it's about time for a little mainstream left-wing extremism.  

Of course now the antivaxer anti-abortion people are screaming "My body, my choice!".   Plenty of irony to go around.
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 16:05
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

@CosmicVibration: Your thing seems to be that the vaccine either has to be 100% safe and effective or is not to be trusted. Nothing in life is 100% safe and effective though. Vaccinated people may become ill and die as well, just not many. It's not only about an individual person protecting themselves. It's about the general spread of the virus including its possibility to mutate and produce new variants. At some point maybe there's one the vaccine won't help against. Or at some point a mutated version will dominate that is totally harmless, who knows. Until then, it's about numbers. Vaccinated people can still transmit the virus but transmissibility is lowered. Vaccinated people are still at risk, but the more people are vaccinated, the lower is that risk. The vaccines have side effects, dangerous for some, yet far less dangerous than Covid in vaccinated people. The more people vaccinated, the fewer will die, and the more freedom is possible without putting people's health at risk. Individuals don't tend to care about this, they ask "does it protect me?" and may worry about side effects. Those who demand 100% protection and safety won't be convinced (and neither will those influenced by weirdos such as the German guy who had claimed that most vaccinated people will be dead by end September). "Personal freedom" has to be weighted against the epidemiology of the overall population. Is personal freedom worth 100,000 deaths more or less? Of course that's a made up number because nobody can give a number that will be accepted by all...  


1. The Risk of vaccine side effects for an obese 75 year old diabetes, heart patient is low compared to Covid. 
2. The Risk of vaccine side effects for young men is greater than the danger of dying from Covid. Many young men have been struck with myocarditis and Pericarditis. That's inflammation of the heart muscle.  There's a 50% mortality rate at 5 years for myocarditis and Pericarditis. More children died from drowning since Covid than of Covid. The risk dying from side effects is greater for folks under 40 than of Covid. 

3. Because of the Covid excuse, in 2020, many hospitals stopped testing people for cancer, heart issues and many other issues.  Death rates for Heart Disease, Diabetes, Stroke, Cancer, and several other diseases had the highest increases since records have been kept. That's what happened when you took away peoples personal freedom's to see doctors in hospitals. 

4. Read the current CDC guidelines. If a kid breaks a leg and tests positive for Covid ( and is asymptomatic) that kid is marked as a Covid-19 occupied bed. Every person who is treated at the hospital is tested for covid. Stroke victims, kidney failure, and women having babies. If they test positive they are marked down a Covid Patient occupying a bed. Over 50% of Covid occupied beds are asymptomatic folks who were admitted for another reason. 

5. You guessed 100,000 deaths.  Government Stats and President Joe Biden claim that the chances of a vaccinated person being admitted to a hospital for Covid is 1/160,000.  According to government stats, 64% of the population has been vaccinated. That's 210,000,000 people. If you divide the number of vaccinated by the odds of a vaccinated person being admitted to a hospital for Covid you get a total of 1,312 people.  That's not dead people. That's the number of vaccinated people the government predicts will be admitted to the hospital for Covid. 1,312 people.  How many of those people will catch Covid from other Vaccinated people?  If you catch Covid...you're contagious.  

Tens of millions of people died for Freedom in World War II. Was it worth it? 

 

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The thousands that died in WW2 didn't die for your warped perception of freedom.
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

@CosmicVibration: Your thing seems to be that the vaccine either has to be 100% safe and effective or is not to be trusted. Nothing in life is 100% safe and effective though. Vaccinated people may become ill and die as well, just not many. It's not only about an individual person protecting themselves. It's about the general spread of the virus including its possibility to mutate and produce new variants. At some point maybe there's one the vaccine won't help against. Or at some point a mutated version will dominate that is totally harmless, who knows. Until then, it's about numbers. Vaccinated people can still transmit the virus but transmissibility is lowered. Vaccinated people are still at risk, but the more people are vaccinated, the lower is that risk. The vaccines have side effects, dangerous for some, yet far less dangerous than Covid in vaccinated people. The more people vaccinated, the fewer will die, and the more freedom is possible without putting people's health at risk. Individuals don't tend to care about this, they ask "does it protect me?" and may worry about side effects. Those who demand 100% protection and safety won't be convinced (and neither will those influenced by weirdos such as the German guy who had claimed that most vaccinated people will be dead by end September). "Personal freedom" has to be weighted against the epidemiology of the overall population. Is personal freedom worth 100,000 deaths more or less? Of course that's a made up number because nobody can give a number that will be accepted by all...  

1. The Risk of vaccine side effects for an obese 75 year old diabetes, heart patient is low compared to Covid. 
2. The Risk of vaccine side effects for young men is greater than the danger of dying from Covid. Many young men have been struck with myocarditis and Pericarditis. That's inflammation of the heart muscle.  There's a 50% mortality rate at 5 years for myocarditis and Pericarditis. More children died from drowning since Covid than of Covid. The risk dying from side effects is greater for folks under 40 than of Covid. 

3. Because of the Covid excuse, in 2020, many hospitals stopped testing people for cancer, heart issues and many other issues.  Death rates for Heart Disease, Diabetes, Stroke, Cancer, and several other diseases had the highest increases since records have been kept. That's what happened when you took away peoples personal freedom's to see doctors in hospitals. 

4. Read the current CDC guidelines. If a kid breaks a leg and tests positive for Covid ( and is asymptomatic) that kid is marked as a Covid-19 occupied bed. Every person who is treated at the hospital is tested for covid. Stroke victims, kidney failure, and women having babies. If they test positive they are marked down a Covid Patient occupying a bed. Over 50% of Covid occupied beds are asymptomatic folks who were admitted for another reason. 

5. You guessed 100,000 deaths.  Government Stats and President Joe Biden claim that the chances of a vaccinated person being admitted to a hospital for Covid is 1/160,000.  According to government stats, 64% of the population has been vaccinated. That's 210,000,000 people. If you divide the number of vaccinated by the odds of a vaccinated person being admitted to a hospital for Covid you get a total of 1,312 people.  That's not dead people. That's the number of vaccinated people the government predicts will be admitted to the hospital for Covid. 1,312 people.  How many of those people will catch Covid from other Vaccinated people?  If you catch Covid...you're contagious.  

Tens of millions of people died for Freedom in World War II. Was it worth it? 

 




Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 04 2021 at 15:33
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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by ProfPanglos ProfPanglos wrote:

When I was in high school (graduated in '84) the catchphrase of the radical left was "Question Authority."

Funny how things change.  Now that the radical left is entirely mainstream and even "establishment" - well, don't you dare question them!  LMAO.


Then why in the heck would you want to live in Seattle?
You should move to the south, we aren't very left wing, but you will still find plenty of amusing authority figures and their efforts to control that which they can not. Try Tennessee, home of the government mandated truly baffling bathroom sign for those who are afraid the he in the stall next door is actually a she.

Haha, I guess I should update my profile sometime.  I moved to Texas over 2 years ago.  And even here in Austin (the "blue dot in the red state") it is a total breath of fresh air compared to Seattle.  Seattle's a joke, I'd never go back.
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Points: 10617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 14:11
Originally posted by ProfPanglos ProfPanglos wrote:

When I was in high school (graduated in '84) the catchphrase of the radical left was "Question Authority."

Funny how things change.  Now that the radical left is entirely mainstream and even "establishment" - well, don't you dare question them!  LMAO.


Then why in the heck would you want to live in Seattle?
You should move to the south, we aren't very left wing, but you will still find plenty of amusing authority figures and their efforts to control that which they can not. Try Tennessee, home of the government mandated truly baffling bathroom sign for those who are afraid the he in the stall next door is actually a she.
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Points: 624 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 12:54
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by ProfPanglos ProfPanglos wrote:

When I was in high school (graduated in '84) the catchphrase of the radical left was "Question Authority."

Funny how things change.  Now that the radical left is entirely mainstream and even "establishment" - well, don't you dare question them!  LMAO.


That rhetoric went out when Trump came in.

It went out long before Trump.  
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 12:47
Originally posted by ProfPanglos ProfPanglos wrote:

When I was in high school (graduated in '84) the catchphrase of the radical left was "Question Authority."

Funny how things change.  Now that the radical left is entirely mainstream and even "establishment" - well, don't you dare question them!  LMAO.


That rhetoric went out when Trump came in.
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 12:43
Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

A personal anecdote here, just my own experience and not empirical evidence, of course.  I do believe in science and have several friends who are experts in infectious diseases, in professional capacity.

I have to say that I was vaccinated (J&J in May) and a few weeks ago, had been exposed.  The lady who cuts my hair has a very small shop, there were a total of 4 people in when I was there, we were masked, as per Oregon law.  She had chosen to not be vaccinated, she is a bit younger than me.  Her son, also not vaccinated, got Covid-19 and was hospitalized and he'd been begging her to get vaccinated.  My appointment was on Friday, on the following Monday, she called me to notify me.  I don't know yet how sick she got, or if she was asymptomatic.

I have an immune compromised housemate (there are 3 of us here, all vaccinated), and have a very minor heart condition.  I luckily did not get Covid-19.  I am inclined to believe that the vaccine was helpful for me. I had no side effects from the vaccine, not even a sore arm.  I do wear a mask when out in public.  I thank Scott for reminding us all, it's more about the other person than it is about you, with masking. 

Also, like Steve, good to see you back, Scott.  
And that's the main thing. Even if it's not a person's main motivating factor, there is inherent selfishness involved by not masking, vaccinating, etc..
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ProfPanglos View Drop Down
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Points: 624 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 12:41
When I was in high school (graduated in '84) the catchphrase of the radical left was "Question Authority."

Funny how things change.  Now that the radical left is entirely mainstream and even "establishment" - well, don't you dare question them!  LMAO.
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Points: 6039 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 12:33
A personal anecdote here, just my own experience and not empirical evidence, of course.  I do believe in science and have several friends who are experts in infectious diseases, in professional capacity.

I have to say that I was vaccinated (J&J in May) and a few weeks ago, had been exposed.  The lady who cuts my hair has a very small shop, there were a total of 4 people in when I was there, we were masked, as per Oregon law.  She had chosen to not be vaccinated, she is a bit younger than me.  Her son, also not vaccinated, got Covid-19 and was hospitalized and he'd been begging her to get vaccinated.  My appointment was on Friday, on the following Monday, she called me to notify me.  I don't know yet how sick she got, or if she was asymptomatic.

I have an immune compromised housemate (there are 3 of us here, all vaccinated), and have a very minor heart condition.  I luckily did not get Covid-19.  I am inclined to believe that the vaccine was helpful for me. I had no side effects from the vaccine, not even a sore arm.  I do wear a mask when out in public.  I thank Scott for reminding us all, it's more about the other person than it is about you, with masking. 

Also, like Steve, good to see you back, Scott.  
"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 11:25
^It's good to see you back Scott. I was starting to worry that you or a family memeber got the virus.

Edited by SteveG - October 04 2021 at 11:25
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