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Topic ClosedMcCain or Obama

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Poll Question: John McCain or Barack Obama?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
21 [22.83%]
71 [77.17%]
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 20:17
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

I can't figure out McCain's health care plan.  He wants to tax my current health care benefits but then offers a $5k tax credit - which would go directly to the insurance company.  So I'm just stuck with the tax?  WTF?

I can explain McCain's health care plan in three words: don't get sick. LOL

This is really getting ugly, the rhetoric McCain and company are using are really getting the ugly Americans to show their asses off...

Man shot three times in street by racist gunman - for wearing Barack Obama T-shirt

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 6:01 PM on 07th October 2008

A man told today how he was shot three times in a London street for wearing a Barack Obama T-shirt.

Dube Egwuatu was buying a mobile telephone top-up card in an off-licence when the gunman confronted him and glared at the top, which carries an image of the Democrat US presidential candidate underneath the legend 'Believe'.

The man then launched into a tirade of racist slurs, shouting 'I f***ing hate n*****s' and urging 36-year-old Mr Egwuatu to leave the shop with him.

Dube%20Egwuato%20was%20racially%20attacked

Respect: Dube Egwuatu wearing the Obama T-shirt that provoked a racist attack

The man then left the shop but when Mr Egwuatu re-emerged, the attacker was waiting for him in broad daylight with a threatening-looking dog and holding a gun behind his back.

Realising what had sparked the increasingly violent assault, the terrified Mr Egwuatu zipped up his jacket to cover the image of Mr Obama and walked to his car.

But the shaven-headed man, who was white,  followed Mr Egwuatu and after pulling open the passenger door pointed the gun at him.

After pleading with the man to leave him alone, the married former street warden put the keys in the ignition and turned the engine on.

The attacker then fired the gas-powered ball-bearing pistol three times, hitting the civil servant in the face, hand and shoulder.

Fearing for his life and bleeding heavily, Mr Egwuatu raced away in his car and found somewhere safe to call for help.

He was taken to hospital and later sent to have a piece of metal removed from his jaw.

Mr Egwuatu, a data analyst with Croydon Council, said: 'The venom in his voice was frightening.

'He was telling me that he was going to kill me.

'I couldn't believe it was happening - and just because I was wearing an Obama T-shirt. He was trying to make me walk somewhere quieter, saying: 'I've got something for you,' and 'I'm going to kill you.'

He added: 'Obama inspires me, his educational track record alone is quite unbelievable - that is why I was wearing the T-shirt.

'I did not think for one minute it could stir up such powerful feelings of hatred and I never said a word to him.'

Mr Egwuatu's wife, Angela, 35, said neither of them had experienced anything like it during their childhood in Nigeria.

Mrs Egwuatu, an immigration officer, said: 'At first my feelings were pure horror and now it is pure anger.

'If he had been carrying a real gun I would have been a widow. It is just ridiculous.

'I don't know how a person's mentality works. Why would a T-shirt get you to the point where you want to shoot someone.'

To the untrained eye, ball-bearing guns like the one used in the attack look every bit like a real firearm.

The potentially lethal weapons are often converted by criminals to fire real bullets, and can be bought easily in high-street shops and on websites.

The Met said it was investigating the incident, which took place in South Norwood, and that police searched a nearby house which the attacker was seen going into.

No one has been arrested."

Point of clarification, the nationality of the assailant is not clear, could be a racist Brit.  Seems we all have more than our fair share of embarrassments in our respective countries.




Edited by Slartibartfast - October 09 2008 at 22:10
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 17:07
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to some conspiracy theories Bin Laden was asked to play the bad guy; nobody really wants to catch him. I must say I don't find that scenario impossible at all


Either way, I don't think Bin Laden himself is all that important right now in any but a symbolic sense.

I only mentioned him because in one post it was said that McCain mentioned him


Well, he definitely is the #1bogeyman in this country, that's why politicians make such a big deal out of it.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to exactly weep when he departs this mortal coil (if he hasn't already), just that in the grand scheme and as far the operational capacity of AQ I don't think he has much of a significant role now.

yes, whether he actually planned 9/11 or somehow was in cahoots with the Bush administration, neither makes him a guy you want to have as your son-in-law


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 16:44
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to some conspiracy theories Bin Laden was asked to play the bad guy; nobody really wants to catch him. I must say I don't find that scenario impossible at all


Either way, I don't think Bin Laden himself is all that important right now in any but a symbolic sense.

I only mentioned him because in one post it was said that McCain mentioned him


Well, he definitely is the #1bogeyman in this country, that's why politicians make such a big deal out of it.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to exactly weep when he departs this mortal coil (if he hasn't already), just that in the grand scheme and as far the operational capacity of AQ I don't think he has much of a significant role now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 16:40
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to some conspiracy theories Bin Laden was asked to play the bad guy; nobody really wants to catch him. I must say I don't find that scenario impossible at all


Either way, I don't think Bin Laden himself is all that important right now in any but a symbolic sense.

I only mentioned him because in one post it was said that McCain mentioned him


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 16:07
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to some conspiracy theories Bin Laden was asked to play the bad guy; nobody really wants to catch him. I must say I don't find that scenario impossible at all


It seem plausable. I can't tell you how many times I've heard Sean Hannity from FoxNews stat that then President Clinton could have have him in custody more than one time and passed on it. Makes one wonder.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 16:04
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to some conspiracy theories Bin Laden was asked to play the bad guy; nobody really wants to catch him. I must say I don't find that scenario impossible at all


Either way, I don't think Bin Laden himself is all that important right now in any but a symbolic sense.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 16:02
according to some conspiracy theories Bin Laden was asked to play the bad guy; nobody really wants to catch him. I must say I don't find that scenario impossible at all


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 15:48

Alright, I just read the two parties websites regarding health care, and I am even more confused. 

During the debate I was pretty certain that Obama said that he would offer employers a tax credit for half of the health care benefits paid up to $2,500.  His site doesn't say anything specific about that.  It does say that his proposals in "Fixing the system" could save families up to $2,500 each.  But it does also say that it would help employers who are payings catastrophic amounts for high-risk employees by reimbursing them for amounts paid over and above some fixed amount.  This fixed amount was not disclosed.  Employers who do not offer health care will be required to pay a percentage of their payroll into the national plan, thus a tax increase on businesses.  Obama's site does say that small businesses would be exempt, but no indication of what is meant by that is given.  According to McCain's website, this would lead to national health care for everyone, because most likely the "tax" paid would be less than the cost of health insurance premiums, therefore employers wouldn't have an incentive to provide health insurance coverage, when the government will do it for them.
 
McCain's health care plan does seem to be similar to what I said above.  However, the difference being that he does continue to have employers pay the benefits.  The difference is that the benefits will be taxable to the employee.  In theory, in most cases the $2,500 or $5,000 tax credit will exceed the amount of the additional taxes paid.  But the taxes will have to be paid out of your pocket whereas the credit will be paid to the insurance company.  They don't really make it clear how this works when you have employer benefits.  It seems as though the employer would be the one to actually save money, and the employee would be paying the taxes.  But in a case where the employee has to kick in a share of the insurance before taxes than in that case the employee might be the one who actually benefits from the credit by not having to kick in the before taxes amount.  I'm not sure about that though.  Best that I can tell, how this part works isn't really discussed on McCain's website.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 14:53

Ironically, Obama should be pleased with McCain's taxing of the health care benefits because they are being taxed out in away where the wealthier have to pay more in taxes than the poor.  If you don't have insurance and you don't make enough money to pay taxes you would be able to get $5,000 in health care benefits paid by the gov't.  You would pick up the $5,000 in income, but you would still either owe no taxes or possibly a minimum amount of a few hundred to $750.  That is quite a deal.  Under Obama's plan you would have to come up with $5,000 and then the government would give you a credit of $2,500 so it still costs you $2,500. 

Again, how this effects people who already have health care provided by their employer, I don't know how this will work.  I suspect that your employer would still have the option of continuing to provide this benefit, however, they might be less encouraged to do so, and might opt instead to eliminate the benefit so that their employees will be in the same position as the above paragraph.  I could be wrong.  If your employer is currently providing $10,000 in health benefits, McCain's plan might involve the government kicking in $5,000 so your employer only has to provide $5,000 in benefits plus the $5,000 that the government provides.  And then you would still end up paying the taxes on the $5,000 benefit, but at least your employer would benefit and continue to give people jobs.  This is just a naive speculation on my part though. 
 
Not that I have looked that hard, but I am kind of surprised that I haven't really seen anywhere where experts compare the two plans and discuss the plusses and minuses.  I'm sure they are probably out there, but I just haven't looked in the right places.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 14:48
Originally posted by BroSpence BroSpence wrote:

Neither.


Sounds a bit like Nader Wink

But yeah, I find neither impressive.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 14:43
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I'm not really sure how their plans differ when it comes to maintaining the insurance that you already have.


But this is exactly what I'm concerned about - McCain wants to take a very costly benefit I receive, which I currently don't pay any taxes on, and add it to my taxable income.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 14:41
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I think that the idea is that you have to pay anywhere from $0 to $2,000 out of your pocket in taxes in order to get up to $5,000 in health care benefits.


The $2k number is very suspect.  What exactly does he mean with benefits - the total amount my company pays to the insurance company, or my portion of that bill?  At the very least, McCain seems to be purposefully vague about the whole thing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 14:30
I think that the idea is that you have to pay anywhere from $0 to $2,000 out of your pocket in taxes in order to get up to $5,000 in health care benefits.  The amount of taxes that you pay depends on your tax bracket.  From that standpoint, it isn't that bad of a health care plan.  Obama's plan appears to offer you or your employer up to 1/2 of the health care premiums paid up to $5,000; so the maximum that you, if paying personally, or your employer, if paid by your employer, can get back is $2,500.  From that standpoint, as weird as it seems, I actually think that McCain's plan might actually be better than Obama's plan. 
 
I'm not really sure how their plans differ when it comes to maintaining the insurance that you already have.  I know Obama's plan allows for that; I don't know if McCain's does.  It doesn't seem that it does, but I'm really not sure there. 
 
I haven't looked all that closely at their plans.  My interpretation is kind of based on what was said during the last debate and what Obama has been saying about McCain's plan in his commercials. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 14:10
I can't figure out McCain's health care plan.  He wants to tax my current health care benefits but then offers a $5k tax credit - which would go directly to the insurance company.  So I'm just stuck with the tax?  WTF?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 13:58
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


Obama Plans Transition; McCain Doesn't

It may or may not reflect the internal state of the campaigns' thinking, but Obama has a large, well-staffed operation going on to prepare for the presidency. Groups are working to select potential cabinet officers and plan policy agendas. McCain has no such operation. All his manpower is going into a final push to win the election. If McCain wins, Obama will look arrogant for planning his administration before winning the election. If he does win, however, he will look mature, wise, and knowledgeable about the process of actually governing."

The Votemaster

Obama 349   McCain 174   Ties 15
Senate Dem 57   GOP 42   Ties 1
House Dem 247   GOP 187   Ties 1

http://www.electoral-vote.com/



McCain doesn't need to plan his cabinet....he'll just use Bush's guys and the castoffs from the previous Bush administration.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 13:19

You think he'll put country first and share it with President Obama? Tongue

Nq081009



Edited by Slartibartfast - October 09 2008 at 13:23
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2008 at 07:40

"Is the White House Worth Having?

Given all the problems the new President will face--two wars, the economy in the toilet, and 80% of the population thinking the country is going in the wrong direction--it is surprising anybody wants to be President. The new President will face an unprecendent number of challenges all at once. Some people have compared this election to 1980, when a fresh new face, Ronald Reagan, took over a country suffering from serious malaise and raised people's spirits. But more and more, people are starting to compare this election to 1932, when there were really industrial-strength problems. CQ Politics has a nice story about the mess the new President will have to deal with.

Obama Plans Transition; McCain Doesn't

It may or may not reflect the internal state of the campaigns' thinking, but Obama has a large, well-staffed operation going on to prepare for the presidency. Groups are working to select potential cabinet officers and plan policy agendas. McCain has no such operation. All his manpower is going into a final push to win the election. If McCain wins, Obama will look arrogant for planning his administration before winning the election. If he does win, however, he will look mature, wise, and knowledgeable about the process of actually governing."

The Votemaster

Obama 349   McCain 174   Ties 15
Senate Dem 57   GOP 42   Ties 1
House Dem 247   GOP 187   Ties 1

http://www.electoral-vote.com/



Edited by Slartibartfast - October 09 2008 at 13:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2008 at 07:42
if the choice of vice-president is any indicator for the kind of choices McCain is going to make there can only be one answer. anyone who choses a person for vice-president who believes in creationism can't be trusted. such a person (Palin, not McCain) does not live in the 21st century. there is as much evidence for the hypothesis of creationism as there is for the hypothesis of the four elements (fire, water, earth and air. and no, it is not a simple matter of belief.
Friede showed me a pseudo-science magazine once in which the theory of relativity was attacked, now I am not an expert in physics (Friede is), but I know the basic results, and even I could see the flaw in some of the arguments. one argued that if you amde a disc revolve that fast that a point near the center would move at close to lightning speed then a point on the perimeter of the disc would move faster. what he overlooked though is that you could not accelerate that disc that much in the first place!
how can a person who deliberately ignores the results of science be trusted not to press the red button? answer: she can't. actually from what I have seen of Sarah Palin I am ready to believe that she might even go "what's that button for?" and then press it, looking cute. and that thought scares me. so whatever one may think of Obama: for the sake of the world's security the choice should be obvious
I actually have difficulties of understanding creationists in the first place. they reject Darwinism because of the bible, yet can, it seems, live with the fact that there are atoms which are not mentioned in the bible at all! someone please explain this mystery to me!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2008 at 20:37
Originally posted by crimhead crimhead wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Oct. 1:
Obama 286   McCain 190   Ties 62
Yesterday:
Obama 338   McCain 185   Ties 15
Today:
Obama 338  
McCain 185   Ties 15




Adding 7" to a certain organ of his body might make him HUGE and a star in certain cinemas.


I was rereading that post and I got a mental picture of that vacuous chick in the Extenze commercial.  I tried to find a link to the commercial so I could copy a pic of her, but I pulled up various sites selling the stuff and now I have to go take a shower because I'm feeling a little unclean. LOL


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 09 2008 at 07:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2008 at 20:24
I was about to gripe about how this particular particular debate wasn't really a debate at all and then I went back and read what the Votemaster called it.  It's a "town hall event" not a debate. 

Run for your lives!!! Here comes the non-debate.


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 09 2008 at 07:43
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