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Topic ClosedRussian chemical attack on UK
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Poll Question: How should government respond?
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65249 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 22:14
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I wouldn't claim that Russia doesn't kill spies and other folks, however false flags are a time tested tactic.  

Ask yourself:
1. Who has the most to gain by the death of the spy?
2. Who has the most to gain politically by the "world wide" publication of the "Spy Poisoned" story? 
Russia?
UK?  
Russia's enemies?

Perhaps, but that sort of all-purpose theory doesn't always hold true.   Who had the most to gain by the death of John Kennedy?: Lyndon Johnson?  The Mob?  Cubans?  CIA?  Richard Nixon?  Kremlin?  British bankers?  Cookie Monster?   You see the problem.

Who gains most from the death of a Russian spy?  Other Russian spies.  As for politically, it is irrelevant because everyone knows Russia plays hardball, especially with espionage and this only reinforces that perception.  This will probably be forgotten in a month or so.

Who benefits most?   The СВР РФ, obviously.   Russia wins.
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Points: 6341 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 19:24
I wouldn't claim that Russia doesn't kill spies and other folks, however false flags are a time tested tactic.  

Ask yourself:

1. Who has the most to gain by the death of the spy?

2. Who has the most to gain politically by the "world wide" publication of the "Spy Poisoned" story? 
Russia?
UK?  
Russia's enemies? 




Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 14 2018 at 19:25
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Points: 15242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 19:11
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^This is not. Wink

Too much evidence to the contrary. If we think in evolutiionary terms, using the same old tired cold war tactics is a bit of a laughable manner. I really wish i could convey the proponderence of evidence i've encountered in a mere chat forum but all i'm asking everyone to do is keep minds open and accept no claims as truth.

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Points: 65249 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 15:53
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

"Found in a catatonic state in Salisbury"
To be fair, half of Salisbury is catatonic on a Saturday night. 

 
  LOL
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Points: 65249 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 15:51
^ Yeah I'd tend to agree.   Espionage is an ugly business.   Spies are still killed. 


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 13:00
^This is not. Wink
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Points: 6341 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 12:56
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

These are usually false flags that are masterminded to instill fear in the public in order to carry out some political means. A tired but effective method (think Bay of Pigs in Cuba in 1960s)

 This^
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 10:01
Old UK frats here will probably remember the Georgi Markov case, where a Bulgarian dissident was stabbed in the leg with a poisoned umbrella, injecting a pellet containing ricin into him: he died shortly later. This was in 1978, nothing was done, the case remains unsolved. 

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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 09:43
"Found in a catatonic state in Salisbury"

To be fair, half of Salisbury is catatonic on a Saturday night. 

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Points: 3136 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 06:39
I would suggest sending over Phil Collins to do a Russian Tour - with compulsory Attendance for all Russian politically active membership. I'm sure that after that they may well leave the Novachok? Nerve agent alone because they would all be still in rehab....
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 06:30
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


^ Bravo! Clap But a bit paranoid too? Ermm Hmm...
 
LOL



Yeah, all bases covered. I'd make a good politician

I just think there needs to be evidence of something to cite it as fact or 'probably true' There is an abundance of evidence on dislay quite openely every day that indicates the uber wealthy and the politcal class have a symbiotic relationship. I don't think there is anything conspiratorial about that. The UK's lucrative relationship with Saudi Arabia, against a back drop of hypocritical guff about human rights, and the enormous donations our current government takes from rich Russians living in London, and in some cases connected to Putin is a matter of open public record.

It's when we get into the Bilderburg group planning to mass kill the world population with engineered plagues, or using the internet to make us all gay, I start losing interest.
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 06:09
^ Bravo! Clap But a bit paranoid too? Ermm Hmm...
 
LOL


Edited by SteveG - March 14 2018 at 06:10
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 06:01
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ not defending Russia and all their crimes but the UK and US have done it all as well. I'm only talking about this incident. If there is no evidence and they are quick to blame, it's usually a false flag. That's the insider's protocol.
I get very tired of these false equivalencies such as "My country is corrupt too, blah blah..." The UK, unlike the Trump crowd, does not state their intelligence findings, that's why you have no proof. Sorry.


Governments have lied about too many things for too long. It very well may be Russia but neither the UK nor US, Germany etc have a shred of credibility for me. I'm generalizing because i don't have time to go into lengthy detail but i've heard more than enough about the black budgets and secret clandestine powers that work beneath the surface. For example, the president of the US is purported to be only 38th in power under a hidden chain of command and Trump has not even been briefed on the black budget programs. That means the prez is not even aware of what's going on. Everything on the main news is nothing more than a puppet show to keep us entertained while the true masters of reality construct things behind the scenes. This is not just paranoid ranting. I've heard more than enough detailed narratives from ex-government and ex-military types. In short, i just don't believe any of the narrative reported.


It's probably safe to say there's always more than meets the eye, but the rabbit hole probably doesn't go as deep as you think. As for your ex-military and ex government sources, just because they've worked in those fields, doesn't exempt them from misinterpretation, exaggeration and attention seeking.

At the end of the day the primary aim of any government in the US (and of our own here in the UK) is to ensure that wealthy people, who influence government process in any way, remain wealthy and on favourable terms with government. The skill of the political class is to make sure that the plebs (the rest of us) don't realise this, and this achieved through skillful wordplay, and well timed communications. All that is a given IMO, anything beyond that invloving secret handshakes, human sacrifice, lizards, freemasons and 'Jews' is merely speculative and paranoid babble.
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Points: 20623 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 22:17
^Hmm...well that sounds a bit paranoid to me......but then I don't talk to ex gubbermint and military 'types'.

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Points: 15242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 17:46
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ not defending Russia and all their crimes but the UK and US have done it all as well. I'm only talking about this incident. If there is no evidence and they are quick to blame, it's usually a false flag. That's the insider's protocol.
I get very tired of these false equivalencies such as "My country is corrupt too, blah blah..." The UK, unlike the Trump crowd, does not state their intelligence findings, that's why you have no proof. Sorry.

Governments have lied about too many things for too long. It very well may be Russia but neither the UK nor US, Germany etc have a shred of credibility for me. I'm generalizing because i don't have time to go into lengthy detail but i've heard more than enough about the black budgets and secret clandestine powers that work beneath the surface. For example, the president of the US is purported to be only 38th in power under a hidden chain of command and Trump has not even been briefed on the black budget programs. That means the prez is not even aware of what's going on. Everything on the main news is nothing more than a puppet show to keep us entertained while the true masters of reality construct things behind the scenes. This is not just paranoid ranting. I've heard more than enough detailed narratives from ex-government and ex-military types. In short, i just don't believe any of the narrative reported.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Points: 4339 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:47
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I see Tillerson's just been fired. On the same day he talked tough over this attack, and pledged full support to the UK.

Interesting...?
Too funny. I was mostly joking about Trump not having foresight but I guess I wasn't wrong.
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Points: 20623 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 14:07
^It is interesting that Tillerson was fired at this time.....and Tillerson took a stance against Russia on this....so maybe Trump once again is showing he's in Putin's pocket or playing safe with the Russians in some manner though of course he would deny all connections.

Does anyone have any idea why Russians would want this ex-agent dead? And how do we know he was a double agent..?
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 11:21
I see Tillerson's just been fired. On the same day he talked tough over this attack, and pledged full support to the UK.

Interesting...?
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Points: 4339 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 10:58
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

It could have been ordered by Trump to prevent this guy from spilling the beans on the whole investigation into Russia messing with the US election...not that we would ever do that in another country. 
Just reading about it quickly and apparently a spokeswoman for the US said "we're standing with our UK allies" but never said whether or not they believe it was Russia. So I could see Turnip taking advantage of the situation and supporting UK over Russia to make it seem like he doesn't owe Russia his office. If that makes sense...
Turnip couldn't have ordered the kill as it would require planning and foresight. ;)
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 10:55
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ not defending Russia and all their crimes but the UK and US have done it all as well. I'm only talking about this incident. If there is no evidence and they are quick to blame, it's usually a false flag. That's the insider's protocol.
I get very tired of these false equivalencies such as "My country is corrupt too, blah blah..." The UK, unlike the Trump crowd, does not state their intelligence findings, that's why you have no proof. Sorry.
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