The UFO Phenomenon

*sigh* You are repeating the same misconception, in fact you are now showing images that are propagating the same misconception of people from earlier times. The painting is not showing what people believed at the time the picture was painted, but what the artist thought that people in earlier times believed. I don;t know the exact source of the painting you have shown, but similar paintings exist from the 19th century that illustrate what they thought the opposition to Columbus's proposed voyage was about, and those artists were wrong. People did not oppose his voyage because they believed the world was flat, they opposed him because they believed he had under-estimated the size of the Earth, the size of Eurasia and the distance from China to Japan (which he had, in all three he was completely wrong, and if you ever get to answer my questions on the Piri Reis map then I'll point out several other areas in which Columbus was both wrong and inaccurate).

Edited by Dean - January 07 2014 at 02:02

Svetonio wrote: Dean wrote: (...) The only time you have offered an opinion from your own mouth it was to repeat an often repeated error that people of the 1600's thought the world was flat, (...) Sadly enough, it's not my opinion. The fact is that a common beliefe in Europe countries that the Earth is not round was strong untill almost recent times.

The idea that the Earth was flat was typical of ancient European cosmologies until about the 4th century BC, when the Ancient Greek philosophers proposed the idea that the Earth was a sphere, or at least rounded in shape.[4] Aristotle was one of the first Greek thinkers to propose a spherical Earth in 330 BC. By the early Middle Ages, it was widespread knowledge throughout Europe that the Earth was a sphere.

Edited by Dean - January 07 2014 at 01:08

Toaster Mantis wrote: Dean wrote: If some cultures represent spirit creatures with big eyes then it could be because the eyes were important to the mythology, like the eye of Horus or the 100 eyes of Argus, or it was to enable the creature to see better, or to see into your soul, or to simply look more scary or beguiling, or it could just be that it looked better with bigger eyes. Of course there is symbolism in many of the depictions and descriptions of mythological creatures, but we must be wary of reading more into them that is actually present, especially applying modern interpretations.  I agree completely, it's just that I think the similarities between UFO/alien contact stories and things like demonology or faerie lore are an angle to approach the subject that hasn't been picked up enough by the general public. Here is the Magonia article I referred to earlier, by the way. They also have a couple others along the same angle.

"Creatures from the sky, and below the ground; tall, beautiful, god-like humans, or small, malevolent goblins, are so consistent a part of human experience, from Baffin Island to New Zealand, that there can be no doubt that they are real!"

...there can be every doubt that they are real. If anyone doubts that the plethora of gods that the human race has ever worshipped are real then there is doubt over every phantasm regardless of which world or realm they come from. The stories of Zeus and Vishnu and Quetzalcoatl are not proof that those gods were real, the story of Beowulf defeating Grendel and his Mum is not proof that any of them were real, so stories of piskies and ishigaq are not proof that faerie folk were real. Many UFOologist have attempted to usurp ancient gods for aliens (in typical von Däniken fashion), substituting a different supernatural creature for those absentee gods does not make the premise more credible. And in this I suspect the conclusion came before the premise - as I said before, there are many examples of demon and faerie that look nothing like ET, even in the Inuit mythology of Baffin Island where most of the bestiary of mythical creatures have animal form (as they do in nearly all cultures).

Edited by Dean - January 06 2014 at 17:59

Svetonio wrote: LOL as every conservative (especially the sworn enemy of beautiful land of Ban de K'amp and New Prog Revolution that is going on there) you spits a "sofisticated" cynicism when you run out of the arguments.

Edited by Dean - January 06 2014 at 13:59

Nothing says scientific accuracy like house music playing in the background.

1) The map is riddled with inaccuracies at the exact places that are supposed to be supporting whatever absurd pre-Columbian theory that's being espoused.

2) Reis' sources have been rather easily traced to people known to have made voyages to the New World.

3) There are more accurate maps from the same time period.

4) Lol @ beginning the video with a dramatic description of elementary geometry to put some viewers' mind in a cloud.

EDIT: The world abounds with genuine mysteries which are just awfully exciting and would really really change our cohesive view of the universe in profound ways. Why is there this need to invent mysteries to explore, especially incredibly mundane ones like this map?


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - January 06 2014 at 08:50

Dean wrote: Svetonio wrote: Dean wrote: Svetonio wrote:   Aha. Btw, what about The Piri Reis map? it's a short video(s) that I posted at previous page of this thread. However here is also a long one about the subject matter that  was filmed last year.. Surprising as it may seem, I am probably not the only person who does not want to spend 79 minutes of their life watching an internet video (not withstanding that at this hour of the day I cannot watch it even if I wanted to, which I don't).   What about you explaining to everyone reading this what the video is about and then tell us in your own words what your opinions and thoughts are on the subject. Surely a 10 minute investment of your time is a better deal than expecting all of us to donate 79 minutes of our free time to watch a video... I said that I posted a short video(s) in previous page in this thread but you won't to hear me that I have to repost the video. Why won't you tell us in your own words what you think? What have you to hide? Are you being monitored by space lizards that inhabit the mystical land of Ban de K'amp, and they have forbidden you from talking about this? Are these videos secret messages from the hidden cabal of Ewe T'Oob that are reported to Add Sense to whatever is being viewed?

Dean wrote: Svetonio wrote:   Aha. Btw, what about The Piri Reis map? it's a short video(s) that I posted at previous page of this thread. However here is also a long one about the subject matter that  was filmed last year.. Surprising as it may seem, I am probably not the only person who does not want to spend 79 minutes of their life watching an internet video (not withstanding that at this hour of the day I cannot watch it even if I wanted to, which I don't).   What about you explaining to everyone reading this what the video is about and then tell us in your own words what your opinions and thoughts are on the subject. Surely a 10 minute investment of your time is a better deal than expecting all of us to donate 79 minutes of our free time to watch a video...

I said that I posted a short video(s) in previous page in this thread but you won't to hear me that I have to repost the video.

Toaster Mantis wrote: dr wu23 wrote: Good observations and apparently you and I have read some of the same books regarding Forteana and related paranormal events. Archetypes are often involved in these 'experiences' that can be called folklore from the past and many seem very similar to some modern experiences. These days people often interpret them as 'ufo phenom' when in the past they were usually seen as 'religious or occult' events. The question remains though ; are they real experiences with an actual physical trigger event or are they all delusions and misidentifications of unusual natural phenomena and processes? Could be it's real phenomena but psychological in nature rather than any actual physical entities: They're all in the brain, but the way the human mind works results in mythological creatures that look and act similar across different cultures only they're explained differently depending on the sociological context. (gods, demons, faeries, aliens etc) I'll find some articles in Magonia exploring that angle later on.

dr wu23 wrote: Good observations and apparently you and I have read some of the same books regarding Forteana and related paranormal events. Archetypes are often involved in these 'experiences' that can be called folklore from the past and many seem very similar to some modern experiences. These days people often interpret them as 'ufo phenom' when in the past they were usually seen as 'religious or occult' events. The question remains though ; are they real experiences with an actual physical trigger event or are they all delusions and misidentifications of unusual natural phenomena and processes?

Could be it's real phenomena but psychological in nature rather than any actual physical entities: They're all in the brain, but the way the human mind works results in mythological creatures that look and act similar across different cultures only they're explained differently depending on the sociological context. (gods, demons, faeries, aliens etc)

I'll find some articles in Magonia exploring that angle later on.

Dean wrote: Svetonio wrote: ^ What about that Dogon cosmology? Read the Wikipedia entry for Nommo: Walter van Beek, an anthropologist studying the Dogon, found no evidence that they had any historical advanced knowledge of Sirius. Van Beek postulated that Griaule engaged in such leading and forceful questioning of his Dogon sources that new myths were created in the process by confabulation, writing that "though they do speak about sigu tolo [what Griaule claimed was Sirius] they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule".[5]