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Topic ClosedAbundance of one-man "bands" in modern prog

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Eria Tarka View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 21:38
Simon Railton... great one-man band. His album "Here it is" is a masterpiece.




































                                                                                                                                                                                                


Edited by bytor2112 - December 22 2012 at 21:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 20:48
Originally posted by Neelus Neelus wrote:

Isn't a one-man band kinda like musical masturbation?
The end result is similar, but the way you got there is alone...
Neelus, your 'morphing Floyd' avatar is sooooo trippy............
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 20:37
I was in bands for 25 years. Basically, I would compose songs on my own, including lyrics, then present them to the band. Invariably, their input made the song better than the acoustic rendition I'd come up with alone (but not always). I don't think this is very much different than what Ian Anderson did with Jethro Tull or David Bowie or Page and Plant or Roger Waters. In fact, in my experience it's far more difficult to write a song with the input of 4 or 5 people all at once.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 20:33

'One Man' bands can be limiting, depending on the performers know-how and skill at various instruments, recording techniques and so forth.  I'd like to think my friend Daniel does an admirable job on his recordings as a one-man arrangement - bar some help from his buddies here and there.  Check out his work at this link

The files are in FLAC, they take a while, but it's worth it.  BTW, I played the bass on tracks 2 & 6. Dan is da Man !!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 19:57
I'm not a drummer so I use bongos and djembes :P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 19:52
Originally posted by CoolJimmi CoolJimmi wrote:

I do believe Cloudkicker and Chimp Spanner speak for their style well enough to lend credence to the rest. However, to me, it is not the creativity that is harmed by the one-man band formula; no, to me, it is often the 'sound' I find to be limited. By this, I mean that one-man bands are often lacking in all of their instruments being performed by a human being, seeing as how it would be difficult in many cases for one person to handle such a task. I say this because of two things: 1. I am a drummer, and percusion instruments are the most likely to be emulated electronically. And 2. I absolutely abhor the use of electronic sounds that are not meant to create ambiance in conjunction with live instruments or are used sparingly for largely thematic reasons.
All that said, I am glad that people have the tools to create the full band sound on their own. This means more music and more people getting into music, which are certainly good things. 

I take your point about drums. I'm not a drummer. I have to use a drum machine. But modern effects devices really do allow one musician to occupy different roles simultaneously and on their own instrument. Experimenting with electronic music to me is part and parcel of what Prog is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 19:18
I do believe Cloudkicker and Chimp Spanner speak for their style well enough to lend credence to the rest. However, to me, it is not the creativity that is harmed by the one-man band formula; no, to me, it is often the 'sound' I find to be limited. By this, I mean that one-man bands are often lacking in all of their instruments being performed by a human being, seeing as how it would be difficult in many cases for one person to handle such a task. I say this because of two things: 1. I am a drummer, and percusion instruments are the most likely to be emulated electronically. And 2. I absolutely abhor the use of electronic sounds that are not meant to create ambiance in conjunction with live instruments or are used sparingly for largely thematic reasons.

All that said, I am glad that people have the tools to create the full band sound on their own. This means more music and more people getting into music, which are certainly good things. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 18:40
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

I like one man bands
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 18:22
as one of said modern prog guys with one man bands, I definitely see it as a double edged sword. Doing everything yourself leaves you complete creative freedom so as long as you have hte technical know-how you should be able to execute your artistic vision exactly the way you want to. On the other hand, I agree that without the chemistry of musicians playing together a lot of magic can be lost. my music is very jammy and improvised and it can be tough to keep things sounding natural and in hte moment when you have to record each track yourself one at a time. personally I wish I could clone myself and just have a band of me playing all the different things so each performer still has my ideas and concepts but that's just fantasy haha. I also obviously agree that it can be very beneficial to have other minds to bounce ideas off and have some kind of criticism.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 16:18
I don't have a problem with it. By what you are suggesting, orchestral composers would not be competent enough to create interesting pieces without other people's input.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 15:30
I guess you guys see the obvious fact that all the classical composers were one-man
acts of sorts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 15:28
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The one-man thing is no more, no less ... an issue ... with one exception ... today you can do this even better than Mike Oldfield with so many tracks on his tape recorders! And faster! But I doubt that it will be better ... because too much of these DAW's is to try and dumb down the music to its simplest ... and that takes away 90% of the music's ability to live on its own right there! ...
 

In what ways do you feel DAWs dumb down the music?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 15:11


I like one man bands
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 15:03
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

@ Dean, what you describe (sending files, scores or tracks to other musicians and let them add their input or modify them) is not what I was referring to which was the magical moments of inspirational feedback which can only happen when playing together.
...
 
Not sure that is true ... again, using the older music examples, what you are saying is that ... "you can't do that" ... if you don't have two or three people playing together, and that is not the case ... that composer STILL put it together and thought of it ... or heard it in his/her head.
 
There is, a certain amount of synchronicity, that can take place between two musicians and this is best found in rock music with brothers, or sister combinations, who ahve a knack for supporting each other through mistakes live like no one else, and of course be able to see/hear these quickly in the studio which often helps clean it up, and/or make it better.
 
IF ... big IFFFFF ... there is something in rock/jazz and free form music that is spectacular, it is that the potential to discover more and more things is much more evident than the composer's idea ... for the most part, mostly because it is two different people interpreting it for the composer ... but if you want to hear synchronicity and what it is about, you need to watch Tom Dowd's DVD ... there is always synchronicity and things that can happen at any time ... but do you, or the engineer, have the ear to find it ... and nod to the folks ... KEEP IT GOING ... and this is what is missing in a lot of rock music, in general, specially when that is a place where you can do this.
 
If I may suggest, you might want to study the traditions of "raga" and "sufi" designs for music ... where the idea is to keep playing until you overcome the limitations of the technical side of your playing ... in order for the music to enter a completely different realm ... in a "psychic" term, this moment would be ... YOU ... and not an idea of you, or notes, or scales, or "music".
 
The one-man thing is no more, no less ... an issue ... with one exception ... today you can do this even better than Mike Oldfield with so many tracks on his tape recorders! And faster! But I doubt that it will be better ... because too much of these DAW's is to try and dumb down the music to its simplest ... and that takes away 90% of the music's ability to live on its own right there! ...
 
But what you are saying is that Albinoni's Adagio in G or any other piece about 500 years of more, is still not exciting to our ears ... because it is missing the concert between the two folks or the violin and the "band" behind it ... and I think you are dead wrong! But it would be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy harder to write that on a staff, than otherwise ... btw!


Edited by moshkito - December 22 2012 at 15:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 14:46
I enjoy hearing what one person can do when they have a singular vision and carry it through to completion. Given the complexity of some prog, I would think it an advantage to work solo.  Most of the great composers in history composed their incredible music working alone.  I think great music can be realized both ways, solo and collaboratively.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 14:46
Isn't a one-man band kinda like musical masturbation?
The end result is similar, but the way you got there is alone...


Edited by Neelus - December 22 2012 at 14:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 13:14
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
You are implying that  band compositions are the result of better inspiration than solo compositions and I cannot agree with that.
Then you badly misunderstood me or neglected to read me. I think I made it clear that IMO one-man compositions / performances can be as great as any band effort and that they have my full respect. And sure enough I love Oldfield's work and many more.

I just put forward the question whether people share with me the perception that there is an increasing trend in modern prog to have an increasing share of one-man music releases, and if they do, how should we interpret it and extrapolate it towards the future if this trend continues.
I clearly said a couple of times that band compositions are not necessarily better, just different and richer in some sense, and I just wonder if such a trend can eventually diminish the share of band compositions and one-band projects may become the dominant way of making music.
I read you just fine thanks.
 
I said "better inspiration" not "better composition", because that was the direction of your argument.
 
 
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 13:09
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
You are implying that  band compositions are the result of better inspiration than solo compositions and I cannot agree with that.
Then you badly misunderstood me or neglected to read me. I think I made it clear that IMO one-man compositions / performances can be as great as any band effort and that they have my full respect. And sure enough I love Oldfield's work and many more.

I just put forward the question whether people share with me the perception that there is an increasing trend in modern prog to have an increasing share of one-man music releases, and if they do, how should we interpret it and extrapolate it towards the future if this trend continues.
I clearly said a couple of times that band compositions are not necessarily better, just different and richer in some sense, and I just wonder if such a trend can eventually diminish the share of band compositions and one-band projects may become the dominant way of making music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 12:51
Like many I think, I appreciate both.  I love plenty of one-man projects and obviously, love many band projects. I do think it is interesting that one can detect the collaborative touch (or lack thereof) when listening.  On the flip side singular vision can be enthralling in its own way. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2012 at 12:44
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

@ Dean, what you describe (sending files, scores or tracks to other musicians and let them add their input or modify them) is not what I was referring to which was the magical moments of inspirational feedback which can only happen when playing together.
That wasn't what I described - I've never worked remotely, the guest musician and I have always been in the same place at the same time. I need that personal interaction if I am working with another person - if they do something I don't like then I will tell them, if I do something they don't like I need to be told.
 
By saying you were referring to the magic moments of inspirational feed back when you are comparing how one-man bands work with how group bands work then you have to take the one-man band methods of working and developing ideas into consideration otherwise you are simply presenting a biased view with no chance for anyone to disagree with you.
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I have played in band (amateur level) and have experienced them so I guessed that most other people who have played and jammed in band must have too. You may be jamming with a riff on guitar and suddenly the bassist may come with a different bass line which would never have occurred to you and yet fits perfectly, that new bass line triggers you to try some variations on what you were playing on the guitar, the keyboardist may jump in with a quirky arpeggio which again is not the kind of thing you would normally think of, then the drummer finds a different rhythm which somehow fits more nicely than the one you had started with, that triggers some other idea by some other member etc.
All compositions work like this don't they? Whether that's one man or a whole ensemble that's how ideas develop, nothing springs forth fully formed. However, not all group compositions are the result of jamming - that in itself is a low-quality form of music IMO that lacks structure and purpose - fine for psyche freakouts but it's not really a composition, the main composition in any track is more often the result of one or two people in the band creating a basic song that the rest of the band adds flesh to.
 
You are implying that  band compositions are the result of better inspiration than solo compositions and I cannot agree with that.
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

One-man compositions / performances can of course be as great as any band effort, but they can never have the particular property of capturing in some magical amalgam the different personalities and influences of the different band members. You may modify and re-do whatever you want but it will still be your composition, arising from a single brain. Different inputs do not necessarily mean a better composition, of course, but they can provide an additional dimension of richness when they get it right.
Of course they can't, but how often does that truely happen in a band and how can you really tell one from the other - Is anything Mike Oldfield creates different from say Steve Hackett or Roger Waters or Vangelis or Steven Wilson.
What?
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