Metallica?

The T wrote: And I don't agree with the Black album not being progressive... Actually, in a weird way, it's the logical conclusion of all the progression of Metallica since Kill 'Em All, but achieving total conciseness.... All the riffs reduced to their perfect expression, all the multi-sections and dynamic changes reduced to their most punching, effective strength. Sorry, the BLACK album is thrash metal being de-thrashed and "proggesized" into a new, almost perfect in its effect, form of METAL. As Cert1fied said, most of the negative answers have been : "NO", "", "They suck"... the MUSICAL answers? Those that favor the YES.   Because, musically, there's no question about it.

Whoa, hold on there a second.

Black album ... prog? I agree on the sentiment that MOP and AJFA give strong arguments for inclusion, but the Black album is really some of the least-proggiest music I've ever heard. Relatively short verse-chorus-verse songs lacking the complexity of their peak, no concept throughout the album as can be seen to some degree in MOP and AJFA ... really now, your argument that they should be included is strong, don't kill it with a "Black album is prog" argument that makes very little sense (IMO).

Also, in terms of musical answers favoring "yes", note that my original post, as well as paolo's post above this one, as well as some others, either imply or outright state that people who know Metallica's music are uncomfortable with the slipperly slope this will lead us into ... i.e. downhill towards ProgAndMetalArchives.

Metallica?.....in suggest new bands?

Edited by mystic fred - May 16 2007 at 14:51

NutterAlert wrote: Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if he did say 'Metallica'.

*throws stone*

I haven't read all the posts here, but its a big YES!!! from me.

Edited by Snow Dog - May 16 2007 at 06:36

Certif1ed wrote: Metallica belong here - I've been saying this since I joined, and it's good to see that people who have actually thought about this rationally agree.     /edit: And when talking about bands at the root of Prog Metal, don't forget Judas Priest or the Scorpions - I'm not arguing for the inclusion of either, but both are at least as - if not more - significant than Iron Maiden.

I agree with you, Certif1ed! And also with MikeEnRegalia!
As a matter of fact the whole Master of Puppets and ...And Justice for All, with their long and complex songs (with plenty of intricate time signatures) do definitely belong in the ProgMetal section!
And also many tracks from Kill 'em all! and Ride the Lightning stand out from that point of view!

As a matter of fact, anyway, they haven't done anything prog-related since ...And Justice for All, in my opinion!

I would be a little more careful about Scorpions: the first two efforts of theirs, however, do contain elements of prog rock (especially the wonderful title track from Fly to the Rainbow)

Atavachron wrote: yes, good point about Maiden's continual use of trademark patterns, it got quite tiresome, even by NOtB. And yes, Metallica's thrash-isms were, or became, breakthrough (though not very original). As for Kirk's playing.. he has to be one of the biggest bluffers in the history of metal. True, at that time Dave and Dennis are not enormously better but, though the techniques may be simple as compared to what an Uli Roth or Randy Rhoads were capable of, their playing and innovative twin harmonies were near perfect with *no* bluffing, just polished musicians after years of gigging.

Edited by Certif1ed - May 16 2007 at 08:15

In spite of their, errm, unusual attraction to sheep and goats, Metallica rock. I agree with Mike that Master of Puppets is an epic.

yes, good point about Maiden's continual use of trademark patterns, it got quite tiresome, even by NOtB. And yes, Metallica's thrash-isms were, or became, breakthrough (though not very original).

As for Kirk's playing.. he has to be one of the biggest bluffers in the history of metal. True, at that time Dave and Dennis are not enormously better but, though the techniques may be simple as compared to what an Uli Roth or Randy Rhoads were capable of, their playing and innovative twin harmonies were near perfect with *no* bluffing, just polished musicians after years of gigging.

Hey Certife1d, you're great, I really respect your tenacity and understanding.. and what great footage! I'd forgotten M opened for Raven ("Kill`em All For One Tour" Thanks.. though I think those videos only prove my point, but no worries.. if Metallica make it on to PA, good for them, I say.









Edited by Atavachron - May 16 2007 at 04:18

Certif1ed wrote: No - not true.   I cannot think of a single example that would prove this - can you?

Sure, the first Maiden album ..it contains more complexity, musicality, and what could be thought of a pseudo-classical passages. This is not evident on 'Kill`em All.