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geekfreak 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2013
Location: Musical Garden
Status: Offline
Points: 9872
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 Posted: December 31 2020 at 07:58 |
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Tier 4 Thanks for absolutely nothing Doris you Clown
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live
Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed.
Keep Calm And Listen To The Music…
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: December 31 2020 at 06:59 |
 chopper wrote:
lazland wrote:
Cosmiclawnmower wrote:
lazland wrote:
I hope that both of your tests come back negative. |
Thanks, yes mine came back a few hours ago, negative luckily.. phew..
Have you heard yet Chopper?
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Great news, and thank you very much  |
My wife and I both tested negative, thanks. |
Great, congrats!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
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Posted: December 31 2020 at 06:30 |
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Wonderful news! Congratulations!
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
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Posted: December 31 2020 at 05:56 |
lazland wrote:
Cosmiclawnmower wrote:
lazland wrote:
I hope that both of your tests come back negative. |
Thanks, yes mine came back a few hours ago, negative luckily.. phew..
Have you heard yet Chopper?
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Great news, and thank you very much |
My wife and I both tested negative, thanks.
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14898
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 12:54 |
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@lazland: I think a proper scientific answer can only be that we don't know. Mutations happen all the time, not only when the virus needs to adapt to a lockdown or something. So I'd be surprised if you were right; surely without lockdowns and restrictions it wouldn't have been impossible at all that a new variant like this comes up, but I can't rule it out, and generally science cannot make reliable statements about "what would've happened had this-or-that thing been done differently".
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 10:18 |
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I recall watching a TV program on infections and viruses some years ago that stated that mutations were the results of efforts to contain the virus or infection actually being successful. Viruses need to survive and as long as they prosper, there is no need for them to mutate. Now, how much of this is undisputed fact I can't say, but perhaps it proves that the lockdowns were effective. |
Absolutely, it does perhaps show the lockdowns to have been effective, but, in my opinion, in the long run, causing more harm than good in terms of the virus as well as the economic, social, and mental costs.
If the virus had not needed to mutate in this way, then it would not have done so, and alternative strategies to deal with lurgy when it was a plodding, rather than super as it is now, spreader might have been better. To be fair, I have consistently argued for this, so it is not merely the benefit of hindsight. |
But it seems like a case of 6 of 1 or a half dozen of the other. The virus was a super spreader before mutating. If left alone it would have had the same bad outcome and hence, no need to mutate. |
And that is where we diverge somewhat. A more effective virus means more people get infected, and at a faster rate, and it is clearly becoming better at spreading despite restrictions and lockdowns.
Beforehand, it did not appear to be that viral, excuse the pun. I quoted Qatar’s extensive testing regime before, and that suggested only 11% of the population had caught the thing, and that does not strike me as being atypical. |
The thing is Laz, is that the original virus is as viral as viral can be in the States. We are into the projected second wave with the original virus here and are bracing for it's mutant offspring. There is no lesser virus here, original or extra crispy.
Edited by SteveG - December 30 2020 at 12:55
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13721
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 08:28 |
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I recall watching a TV program on infections and viruses some years ago that stated that mutations were the results of efforts to contain the virus or infection actually being successful. Viruses need to survive and as long as they prosper, there is no need for them to mutate. Now, how much of this is undisputed fact I can't say, but perhaps it proves that the lockdowns were effective. |
Absolutely, it does perhaps show the lockdowns to have been effective, but, in my opinion, in the long run, causing more harm than good in terms of the virus as well as the economic, social, and mental costs.
If the virus had not needed to mutate in this way, then it would not have done so, and alternative strategies to deal with lurgy when it was a plodding, rather than super as it is now, spreader might have been better. To be fair, I have consistently argued for this, so it is not merely the benefit of hindsight. |
But it seems like a case of 6 of 1 or a half dozen of the other. The virus was a super spreader before mutating. If left alone it would have had the same bad outcome and hence, no need to mutate. |
And that is where we diverge somewhat. A more effective virus means more people get infected, and at a faster rate, and it is clearly becoming better at spreading despite restrictions and lockdowns.
Beforehand, it did not appear to be that viral, excuse the pun. I quoted Qatar’s extensive testing regime before, and that suggested only 11% of the population had caught the thing, and that does not strike me as being atypical.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 08:18 |
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I recall watching a TV program on infections and viruses some years ago that stated that mutations were the results of efforts to contain the virus or infection actually being successful. Viruses need to survive and as long as they prosper, there is no need for them to mutate. Now, how much of this is undisputed fact I can't say, but perhaps it proves that the lockdowns were effective. |
Absolutely, it does perhaps show the lockdowns to have been effective, but, in my opinion, in the long run, causing more harm than good in terms of the virus as well as the economic, social, and mental costs.
If the virus had not needed to mutate in this way, then it would not have done so, and alternative strategies to deal with lurgy when it was a plodding, rather than super as it is now, spreader might have been better. To be fair, I have consistently argued for this, so it is not merely the benefit of hindsight. |
But it seems like a case of 6 of 1 or a half dozen of the other. The virus was a super spreader before mutating. If left alone it would have had the same bad outcome and hence, no need to mutate.
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13721
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 08:06 |
SteveG wrote:
I recall watching a TV program on infections and viruses some years ago that stated that mutations were the results of efforts to contain the virus or infection actually being successful. Viruses need to survive and as long as they prosper, there is no need for them to mutate. Now, how much of this is undisputed fact I can't say, but perhaps it proves that the lockdowns were effective. |
Absolutely, it does perhaps show the lockdowns to have been effective, but, in my opinion, in the long run, causing more harm than good in terms of the virus as well as the economic, social, and mental costs.
If the virus had not needed to mutate in this way, then it would not have done so, and alternative strategies to deal with lurgy when it was a plodding, rather than super as it is now, spreader might have been better. To be fair, I have consistently argued for this, so it is not merely the benefit of hindsight.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 07:36 |
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I recall watching a TV program on infections and viruses some years ago that stated that mutations were the results of efforts to contain the virus or infection actually being successful. Viruses need to survive and as long as they prosper, there is no need for them to mutate. Now, how much of this is undisputed fact I can't say, but perhaps it proves that the lockdowns were effective.
Edited by SteveG - December 30 2020 at 07:45
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13721
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 06:57 |
Easy Money wrote:
^ I don't know much about science, but I do know a few things about wishful thinking.  |
Perish the thought, dear chap!
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10669
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 06:48 |
^ I don't know much about science, but I do know a few things about wishful thinking.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13721
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Posted: December 30 2020 at 05:47 |
Okey dokey then. Here’s a question for the more scientifically minded or qualified amongst you. It is a genuine question from a proudly self-identifying layman who only picks up scientific knowledge from the stuff he reads.
Is it at all possible that the faster spreading variant of Covid is as the result of the old (and my favourite) “law of unintended consequences”?
By this, I mean; Western governments have spent months now pushing their people into and out of varying restrictions and lockdowns in order to suppress the transmission of the virus, or as Boris puts it, “putting our foot on the throat of the virus”. There has been an almost obsessive and relentless primary concern about infection rates and infected numbers, and the need to keep these down.
Is it at all possible that the virus (perfectly naturally and in line with usual evolutionary effects, given that it does not consciously think) has evolved a new mutation successfully in order to spread more quickly, more effectively, and by targeting a larger spread of humanity, in particular the younger personages? Has it done this as a perfectly natural evolutionary reaction to efforts made by us to suppress its spread?
In other words, had we left the bloody thing alone to spread quietly in its original form, would there have been ultimately less damage in terms of infection rates and transmissions?
Have we, by our efforts to suppress something which biologically and naturally exists to spread, in a wholly unnatural manner encouraged it to mutate into a form which more effectively achieves its biological purpose?
This is a serious question on my part, and not a piss take. I have not read this anywhere, and I am surprised that I haven’t, because it strikes this layman as a perfectly natural and logical conclusion to make.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13721
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Posted: December 29 2020 at 15:22 |
SteveG wrote:
Yes indeed. Happy Birthday Laz!  |
Thank you, Steve. Just rounding off the night with a lovely single malt given to me by the mother in law.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
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Posted: December 29 2020 at 13:54 |
Yes indeed. Happy Birthday Laz!
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13721
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Posted: December 29 2020 at 13:13 |
Cosmiclawnmower wrote:
lazland wrote:
I hope that both of your tests come back negative. |
Thanks, yes mine came back a few hours ago, negative luckily.. phew..
Have you heard yet Chopper?
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Great news, and thank you very much
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Cosmiclawnmower
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 09 2010
Location: West Country,UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3773
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Posted: December 29 2020 at 12:28 |
lazland wrote:
I hope that both of your tests come back negative. |
Thanks, yes mine came back a few hours ago, negative luckily.. phew..
Have you heard yet Chopper?
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
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Posted: December 28 2020 at 12:10 |
Cosmiclawnmower wrote:
chopper wrote:
Just been for a test as someone my wife works with has come down with it on Christmas Day. Not the most pleasant experience sticking a swab up your nose in a freezing cold car park. No symptoms so far so we should hopefully be ok.
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Went for a test myself today and can only agree with your take on the hideous experience. I started feeling a bit rough yesterday and due to various family shielding reasons i had to check it out. In any other circumstances i would have just put it down to 'seasonal exhaustion' (i dont mean over-eating and drinking, i mean a year of running an estate, farm and garden with no holiday and reduced staff..) but just cant take any chances with my ageing in-laws, sister in law who is recieving treatment for cancer and my own slightly compromised health (chronic.. but relatively mild.. lung condition). Hope both our results come back negative! |
Fingers crossed!
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13721
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Posted: December 28 2020 at 12:02 |
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I hope that both of your tests come back negative.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Cosmiclawnmower
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 09 2010
Location: West Country,UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3773
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Posted: December 28 2020 at 11:53 |
chopper wrote:
Just been for a test as someone my wife works with has come down with it on Christmas Day. Not the most pleasant experience sticking a swab up your nose in a freezing cold car park. No symptoms so far so we should hopefully be ok.
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Went for a test myself today and can only agree with your take on the hideous experience. I started feeling a bit rough yesterday and due to various family shielding reasons i had to check it out. In any other circumstances i would have just put it down to 'seasonal exhaustion' (i dont mean over-eating and drinking, i mean a year of running an estate, farm and garden with no holiday and reduced staff..) but just cant take any chances with my ageing in-laws, sister in law who is recieving treatment for cancer and my own slightly compromised health (chronic.. but relatively mild.. lung condition). Hope both our results come back negative!
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