I posted this thread so long ago that I'd totally forgotten about it. I thought it was your thread, or am I just losing the thread (again!?). No, don't answer that.
I noticed they'd got both of Hatfield & the North's albums in my local FOPP record store today in Nottingham for just Ģ7 each, but they'd got nothing by National Health, although they said I could order both National Health albums at Ģ14 each. It's a pity it wasn't the other way around. I would have been more that happy to have paid Ģ7 each for National Health's two albums.
^^ I totally agree with Caravan being the most easily approachable and easy-to-listen-to music out of all of the Canterbury Scene bands, because they were the first Canterbury Scene band I really got into before I even knew there was such a thing as the Canterbury Scene.
I'd also agree that Matching Mole are one of the most challenging and demanding of all of the Canterbury Scene bands, even more so than Hatfield & the North.
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - January 23 2020 at 13:03
^ cool. Some of the Canterbury stuff is the most convoluted and complex of all prog which is why it is considered amongst hardcore proggers as the zenith of prog rock expressions. It's sorta like the cream of the crop for Olympic marathon proggers!
Caravan is definitely the right place to start for beginners. It's the most poppy of the Scene whereas the jagged soundscapes of Hatfield, Moving Gelatine Plates and Matching Mole are some of the most demanding.
The middle range includes artists like Gong, Hillage, Supersister and Soft Machine.
What's cool about the Canterbury Scene is that it connects a disparate style of musical expression with an intangible "feel" through jazzy chord progressions that is instantly identifiable when you listen to it but is almost impossible to express in words.
Although it could easily be lumped into the greater jazz-fusion category, the Cant Scene defiantly exists in its own little world that despite reaching a sort of musical cul de sac in the 70s which limits newer artists to imitating the early pioneers, still exudes a charm unlike any other sound and perhaps the most successful style of prog that creates warm and inviting emotional connections coupled with some of the most brutal complex technical workouts in the prog universe.
My Hatfield & the North review isn't written in stone, so if I listen to The Rotter's Club album again and change my initial opinion of the album, I can always edit my rating or review.
I'll give Matching Mole's two albums a wide berth though. I didn't like them at all.
^ It's one of the most complex prog albums ever made. It's certainly an acquired taste and one of the Holy Grails of prog. If you've been listening to prog rock long enough, you'll eventually gravitate to more complex arrangements and end up loving albums like this that have more ideas stuffed in one track than most artists will muster up in an entire career. At least that's what happened for me. I hesistated reviewing for years because it would give me a different impression every time i listened to it. Sometimes i'd find it boring and other times it would blow me away as the best masterpiece ever made. It took about five years before it simmered down and emerged as one of the highlight masterpieces of all of prog rock.
I have listened prog from the eighties, but to me has happened backward "development". I think I liked much more complex prog in the eighties than today, today I like more great melodies and strong atmospheres than very complex structures (of course this has some exceptions for example Magma). Itīs very possible if I hadnīt listened seventies Rush in the eighties & had found it recently, I wouldnīt like it. I think you just have to accept every prog listener would not love Hatfield. But anyway, I will try that second some day and also give more listens to that first (it hasnīt been totally bad).
^ It's one of the most complex prog albums ever made. It's certainly an acquired taste and one of the Holy Grails of prog. If you've been listening to prog rock long enough, you'll eventually gravitate to more complex arrangements and end up loving albums like this that have more ideas stuffed in one track than most artists will muster up in an entire career. At least that's what happened for me. I hesistated reviewing for years because it would give me a different impression every time i listened to it. Sometimes i'd find it boring and other times it would blow me away as the best masterpiece ever made. It took about five years before it simmered down and emerged as one of the highlight masterpieces of all of prog rock.
^ don't get me wrong. I'm not saying everyone has to love the album. I'm just saying that it's one of those connoisseur type of albums that you really have to invest time in to understand the complexities. If you choose not to is one's prerogative, however it's like taking one semester of a class of a foreign language and thinking that's enough to speak it fluently therefore what you present is not really a review but rather an impression. All is valid of course but personally i think the invested time allows the album to take on a completely new dimension undetected in the earlier stages of experiencing it.
If I happened to see Hatfield & the North's album at a bargain price charity shop or car boot sale then I would buy it and then I'd listen to it several times over. As I said in my review, it's a complex album that deserves to be listened to several times to fully appreciate it, and that especially applies to the longest track: "Mumps"
By the way, I always enjoy reading your reviews, even if I don't always agree with them.
Actually I have listened only their first album (Iīve got the picture they made only one album). But what I just read about that second album, I donīt think it also will become my big favorites, cause that first one also hasnīt become. I just donīt have any idea, why I would listen even 20 times some album I donīt like at all (or very little like Hatfield). On the other hand I very rare make reviews from the albums I donīt like at all.
^ don't get me wrong. I'm not saying everyone has to love the album. I'm just saying that it's one of those connoisseur type of albums that you really have to invest time in to understand the complexities. If you choose not to is one's prerogative, however it's like taking one semester of a class of a foreign language and thinking that's enough to speak it fluently therefore what you present is not really a review but rather an impression. All is valid of course but personally i think the invested time allows the album to take on a completely new dimension undetected in the earlier stages of experiencing it.
If I happened to see Hatfield & the North's album at a bargain price charity shop or car boot sale then I would buy it and then I'd listen to it several times over. As I said in my review, it's a complex album that deserves to be listened to several times to fully appreciate it, and that especially applies to the longest track: "Mumps"
By the way, I always enjoy reading your reviews, even if I don't always agree with them.
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - January 23 2020 at 01:05
^ don't get me wrong. I'm not saying everyone has to love the album. I'm just saying that it's one of those connoisseur type of albums that you really have to invest time in to understand the complexities. If you choose not to is one's prerogative, however it's like taking one semester of a class of a foreign language and thinking that's enough to speak it fluently therefore what you present is not really a review but rather an impression. All is valid of course but personally i think the invested time allows the album to take on a completely new dimension undetected in the earlier stages of experiencing it.
I've reviewed five Canterbury Scene albums so far:-
KHAN - Space Shanty
STEVE HILLAGE - Fish Rising
NATIONAL HEALTH - National Health
QUIET SUN - Mainstream
HATFIELD & THE NORTH - The Rotters' Club
If you only gave Rotter's Club 3 stars then you clearly don't understand the Canterbury Scene. That album is pretty much the pinnacle of the entire sound that evolved out of the Soft Machine / Caravan / Egg paradigm.
Many albums lumped into the genre like Steve Hillage and Gong are really more psychedelic space rock. Canterbury Scene is a unique brand of jazz-rock with prog tendencies. Hatfield & The North's albums are THE quintessential examples of this sound. Keep listening. It hasn't revealed its secrets yet or you're not listening close enough.
You're right. That's pretty much what I said at the end of my review. The music of Hatfield & the North is too complex for me to fully understand or truly appreciate, so I couldn't honestly give it a higher rating than three stars. I know most PA members gave The Rotter's Club a four or five star rating, but my rating and review is just my own personal point of view. Yes, it IS a good album, but I only give four or five star ratings to albums that I'd actually want to go out and buy and spend Ģ10 on, but I can't say that about Hatfield & the North, but then again, I've only listened to The Rotters' Club album twice, so maybe it's an album that requires several listens to really get into it.
I do like Steve Hillage's first four albums though, despite not being a big fan of his band, Gong.
If you've only listened to it twice, what makes you think you could possibly write a review about it? It literally took me about five years for it to sink in and I'm an eclectic avid music consumer as well as a musician. Youre attempting to critique something above your comprehension and in the process offer no insight into the music itself. I personally don't review albums until I understand them on a deeper level
At least three-quarters of the albums I've reviewed I only listened to a couple of times, so why should Hatfield & the North be any different? I don't have time to wait five years to understand an album on a deeper level before I review every album.
Then why should anybody take anything you say seriously? I don't take 5 years to focus on most albums but that one i did. Just sayin, if you REALLY want to find the cream of the crop of the Canterbury Scene, you really have to crack the tough nut of Rotter's Club. It's the whole scene on steroids :)
I fully agree with Paul about Hatfield. I havenīt also listened it hundreds of times, but I have listened music so long that I know it will never become into group of my favourites from Canterbury albums.
Thanks for your support. I guessed it might cause controversy when I only gave The Rotters' Club album a three star rating when most other PA members gave the album a four or five star rating. I don't feel inclined to listen to the album repeatedly over the course of five years though to see if it's going to change my opinion. A three-star rating still means it's a good album from my point of view, but it's just not an album I'd want to go out and spend money on when there are literally thousands of other albums I'd rather buy instead.
I've reviewed five Canterbury Scene albums so far:-
KHAN - Space Shanty
STEVE HILLAGE - Fish Rising
NATIONAL HEALTH - National Health
QUIET SUN - Mainstream
HATFIELD & THE NORTH - The Rotters' Club
If you only gave Rotter's Club 3 stars then you clearly don't understand the Canterbury Scene. That album is pretty much the pinnacle of the entire sound that evolved out of the Soft Machine / Caravan / Egg paradigm.
Many albums lumped into the genre like Steve Hillage and Gong are really more psychedelic space rock. Canterbury Scene is a unique brand of jazz-rock with prog tendencies. Hatfield & The North's albums are THE quintessential examples of this sound. Keep listening. It hasn't revealed its secrets yet or you're not listening close enough.
You're right. That's pretty much what I said at the end of my review. The music of Hatfield & the North is too complex for me to fully understand or truly appreciate, so I couldn't honestly give it a higher rating than three stars. I know most PA members gave The Rotter's Club a four or five star rating, but my rating and review is just my own personal point of view. Yes, it IS a good album, but I only give four or five star ratings to albums that I'd actually want to go out and buy and spend Ģ10 on, but I can't say that about Hatfield & the North, but then again, I've only listened to The Rotters' Club album twice, so maybe it's an album that requires several listens to really get into it.
I do like Steve Hillage's first four albums though, despite not being a big fan of his band, Gong.
If you've only listened to it twice, what makes you think you could possibly write a review about it? It literally took me about five years for it to sink in and I'm an eclectic avid music consumer as well as a musician. Youre attempting to critique something above your comprehension and in the process offer no insight into the music itself. I personally don't review albums until I understand them on a deeper level
At least three-quarters of the albums I've reviewed I only listened to a couple of times, so why should Hatfield & the North be any different? I don't have time to wait five years to understand an album on a deeper level before I review every album.
Then why should anybody take anything you say seriously? I don't take 5 years to focus on most albums but that one i did. Just sayin, if you REALLY want to find the cream of the crop of the Canterbury Scene, you really have to crack the tough nut of Rotter's Club. It's the whole scene on steroids :)
I fully agree with Paul about Hatfield. I havenīt also listened it hundreds of times, but I have listened music so long that I know it will never become into group of my favourites from Canterbury albums.
I've been trying to argue for several years that it shouldn't be called the Canterbury "scene" but a "style"--especially as there are so many bands internationally who have been inspired by the silly, experimental, psychedelic jazz of The Softs, Egg, Caravan, and Gong.
Holland - Supersister
Belgium - Cos
Germany - Zyma
France - Moving Gelatine Plates, Patrick Forgas, Setna, Alco Frisbass
Spain - Amoeba Split
Italy - Picchio dal Pozzo, Homunculus Res, Moogg, The Winstons
Brazil - Violeta de Outono
Japan - Mr. Sirius
USA - The Muffins, Manna/Mirage, Inner Ear Brigade, Ampledeed
Plus, as Robert Wyatt says in the above quoted interview, there was no loyalty or pride associated with Canterbury among musicians who happened to pass through their during their lives, it's more of a critical nostalgia coming from literary romantics that has created this category (and the same nostalgia that tries to keep it a "private club" with a "closed door policy"--to which Robert, I'm sure, would strongly disagree).
P.S. Excellent link, David, with that Needlepoint song: they do, indeed, exude many of the sounds and traits of the psychedelic-Beatnick jazz or "Canterbury" style of music that many of us have come to know and love.
I've reviewed five Canterbury Scene albums so far:-
KHAN - Space Shanty
STEVE HILLAGE - Fish Rising
NATIONAL HEALTH - National Health
QUIET SUN - Mainstream
HATFIELD & THE NORTH - The Rotters' Club
If you only gave Rotter's Club 3 stars then you clearly don't understand the Canterbury Scene. That album is pretty much the pinnacle of the entire sound that evolved out of the Soft Machine / Caravan / Egg paradigm.
Many albums lumped into the genre like Steve Hillage and Gong are really more psychedelic space rock. Canterbury Scene is a unique brand of jazz-rock with prog tendencies. Hatfield & The North's albums are THE quintessential examples of this sound. Keep listening. It hasn't revealed its secrets yet or you're not listening close enough.
You're right. That's pretty much what I said at the end of my review. The music of Hatfield & the North is too complex for me to fully understand or truly appreciate, so I couldn't honestly give it a higher rating than three stars. I know most PA members gave The Rotter's Club a four or five star rating, but my rating and review is just my own personal point of view. Yes, it IS a good album, but I only give four or five star ratings to albums that I'd actually want to go out and buy and spend Ģ10 on, but I can't say that about Hatfield & the North, but then again, I've only listened to The Rotters' Club album twice, so maybe it's an album that requires several listens to really get into it.
I do like Steve Hillage's first four albums though, despite not being a big fan of his band, Gong.
If you've only listened to it twice, what makes you think you could possibly write a review about it? It literally took me about five years for it to sink in and I'm an eclectic avid music consumer as well as a musician. Youre attempting to critique something above your comprehension and in the process offer no insight into the music itself. I personally don't review albums until I understand them on a deeper level
At least three-quarters of the albums I've reviewed I only listened to a couple of times, so why should Hatfield & the North be any different? I don't have time to wait five years to understand an album on a deeper level before I review every album.
Then why should anybody take anything you say seriously? I don't take 5 years to focus on most albums but that one i did. Just sayin, if you REALLY want to find the cream of the crop of the Canterbury Scene, you really have to crack the tough nut of Rotter's Club. It's the whole scene on steroids :)
Anyone want to recommend the go-to album by Kevin Ayers (RIP)?
I think his first 5 albums are worth owning but singling one out rather depends on your tastes. The obvious is Joy Of A Toy which I love..but my two faves of his are actually Whatevershebringswesing and The Confessions Of Dr. Dream & Other Stories.
Thank you, Guldbamsen.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
Anyone want to recommend the go-to album by Kevin Ayers (RIP)?
I think his first 5 albums are worth owning but singling one out rather depends on your tastes. The obvious is Joy Of A Toy which I love..but my two faves of his are actually Whatevershebringswesing and The Confessions Of Dr. Dream & Other Stories.
I generally like Kevin Ayers, but this piece of unlistenable "music" from his second album almost put me off him for life.
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