The Prog-Metal controversy

Certif1ed wrote: micky wrote: andu wrote: Keep us informed.  when you hear projectile vomiting.... you'll know I've reached Moonchild   Moonchild is one of my favourite songs on that album as it sums up that whole "not knowing what's going to happen next" feeling - the way the tones just hang there, suspended, like moonbeams, as ghostly coils of sound drift past, painting opaque and dark-blue imagery of clouds obscuring the view temporarily as you watch, hypnotised...    Man, I feel a review coming on...

ahhhh... in the middle of it speak of the devil.  You are quite right about 'not knowing what is going to happen next' .  I love that in prog.. one problem though for me about Moonchild....

The problem is....  nothing did happen... it didn't GO anywhere. Not for me at least.  As always... I'd love to read your review.  Maybe it will be a roadmap of sorts

micky wrote: toolis wrote: i think that PM is a very important genre and DT a very important - at least - band... without these there would've have been that many prog rock fans in here, including me.. that's very true.... one day I was pissing around the Welcome Newbie section and noticed that ..like 8 posters in a row had listed DT as one of th groups that led them here. Personally I see DT as the latter day ELP.  On the surface at least... to the unitiated.. or the casual listener.  The focus is on upon shear w**kery and technical skills rather than the music itself.  Anyhow.. for me personally...  I think ELP made it sound incredible..  DT for me just sounds boring.  The difference... ELP was blazing trails and had a heavy interest in bringing classical music to the 'masses' .... the motivation for DT?  Who knows.. selling albums... making magazine covers and top instrumentalists lists.  I've always been surprised by those, like Ivan, that are surprised that Raff.. and me specifically,  like some prog metal.  I did really like Mastodon and LOVE the hell out of Opeth.  We just don't like DT... but would never damn a whole sub-genre because it's most popular group....is not to our tastes.

DT will always be one of my all time favorite bands. If you don't like them - fine ... but they've been blazing trails for many of the bands that followed, even including bands like Mastodon and Opeth (even Mikael himself likes DT btw). Their motivation? Well, they're not selling many albums. And music magazine covers ... well, I guess I'll never understand how people who call themselves fans of sophisticated music could possibly bash musicians for being virtuosic. And it doesn't have to exclude musicality and emotion at all. DT write excellent tunes, and they're much more emotional and
musical than ELP ever were IMHO.

I appreciate what you and some others are trying to do here ... promoting prog metal and everything. But you can't really do that and bash one of the pivotal prog metal bands in the process ... DT defined prog metal in the 90s, and the more experimental bands can only make the genre more diverse - but they certainly can't "un-define" what came before.

andu wrote: Keep us informed.

when you hear projectile vomiting.... you'll know I've reached Moonchild

andu wrote: micky wrote: rushfan4 wrote: I have always felt that King Crimson's 21st Century Schizoid Man was the first prog metal song. out of curiousity... why....   because it is 'heavy'  Micky, I've had the same impression, really. There's something really special in the rhythmical interplay of drum, bass and guitar riffs on the heavier songs there which I did not find in any prog of the 70s, but I find it in thrash and prog-metal.

hmmm....  I'll put that on and listen for that .... and wake the neighbors at this early hour hahahhahah.  I honestly haven't listened to it a good while. Not exactly my favorite album from them.

Trickster F. wrote: micky wrote: rushfan4 wrote: I have always felt that King Crimson's 21st Century Schizoid Man was the first prog metal song. out of curiousity... why....   because it is 'heavy'   I always considered Black Sabbath's Symptom of the Universe to be the first (proto-)Prog Metal song.

micky wrote: rushfan4 wrote: I have always felt that King Crimson's 21st Century Schizoid Man was the first prog metal song. out of curiousity... why....   because it is 'heavy'

toolis wrote: i think that PM is a very important genre and DT a very important - at least - band... without these there would've have been that many prog rock fans in here, including me..

that's very true.... one day I was pissing around the Welcome Newbie section and noticed that ..like 8 posters in a row had listed DT as one of th groups that led them here.


Personally I see DT as the latter day ELP.  On the surface at least... to the unitiated.. or the casual listener.  The focus is on upon shear w**kery and technical skills rather than the music itself.  Anyhow.. for me personally...  I think ELP made it sound incredible..  DT for me just sounds boring.  The difference... ELP was blazing trails and had a heavy interest in bringing classical music to the 'masses' .... the motivation for DT?  Who knows.. selling albums... making magazine covers and top instrumentalists lists. 

I've always been surprised by those, like Ivan, that are surprised that Raff.. and me specifically,  like some prog metal.  I did really like Mastodon and LOVE the hell out of Opeth.  We just don't like DT... but would never damn a whole sub-genre because it's most popular group....is not to our tastes. 


Edited by micky - October 09 2007 at 07:08

rushfan4 wrote: I have always felt that King Crimson's 21st Century Schizoid Man was the first prog metal song.

I have always felt that King Crimson's 21st Century Schizoid Man was the first prog metal song.

FruMp wrote: The main problem with people's perception of prog metal is in my view Dream Theatre -  they are a love them or hate them band and they happen to be the most well known prog metal band. I personally despise them because they are way too cheesy for my tastes and there are many people who feel the same but who dismiss the entire prog-metal genre because of it.

In my opinion, this is at least in part true. However, as I stated in my initial post, the real problem lies in that small, seemingly inoffensive 'metal' word. I am quite sure most of the people who slam PM on this board have never really listened to anything but perhaps DT, but still feel entitled to say it doesn't belong here - which of course is extremely offensive to those people who work hard in order to find new, interesting, innovative bands to add to our DB.