Record that voters name

I doubt it is possible under our forum software, and I would never expect it even if it were.  It's an academic, rather than Help Is Improve this Site sort of question, rather like with Rate that post/ rate that topic .  An "If it were possible, would you like it?" sort of question.  Though I'm more interested in the ramifications of such a thing.  In both cases I actually thought about posting them in Just For Fun, but I felt that they would die a very quick death there being, perhaps, not really that fun.

Ian: I know that the analogy is a tad tenuous, and do understand the differences of site intent between voting in polls and rating albums, but I still thought the analogy fairly apt in the context of the posts to which it was a response to.  Perhaps not, but I didn't mean it that seriously.  I think that some people vote in polls without posting because their English is very poor, which can be said for people who rate without reviewing.  Heck, many times you see people why post in polls who fail to comprehend/ or properly respond to the poll question (often just because it's a gut reaction without reading the poll's question and without reading the opening post).  Sometimes a lack of English comprehension becomes apparent, but very commonly it's native English speakers who get it wrong (just not being careful).  I like it when people put a little thought and effort into their votes and responses, but to each his or her own.  For others, in both rating and voting cases, it's just that they don't feel like writing anything (course a review is much harder to write than most posts).

As for the statistics thing, I threw that in primarily with rather humorous intent (my dry sense of humour that I often try to inject in posts -- sometimes to keep it light -- doesn't often translate to others well.

I do suspect that had such a feature been implemented we would have had less abuse of the polls, and that it would have encouraged more people to share their opinions about the music and get involved with the discussion, as well as making it seem less important to actually write what one is voting for if one has nothing to say beyond that.  I also would think that when multiple votes in a poll is enabled there would be far less chance of abuse of that.  That's a somewhat important one to me since I often don't want to vote for just one or set up polls with only one option that you can vote for, but enabling multiple voting has often led to individuals rating the same act over and over again.  In my polls where I have enable multiple votes I haven't had that problem as I tend not to list really popular choices, and I get people posting with similar tastes that i am acquainted with and where the people have mutual respect (at least from a musical tastes perspective), so abuse becomes less likely.

Additionally, I would be interested to see who those invisible raters are (the word I use for that is usi in Tagalog, which sort of means nosy), and I do compare that to what i know of them.  I am interested in behavioural patterns, and kind of follow that in different ways on this board (not in any ways that everyone else couldn't in case people think I'm using some strange moderator powers to check up on people -- not at all, as even if I could (and my role is very limited and insubstantial, rather like my brain), I do also respect people's privacy.  Ah, there's the rub.  I respect people's privacy, yet I want more made public.  I want more made public with people's consent and understanding that it would be made public (I've often wished that all evaluations would be done publicly, but recognise why they are not).


Edited by Logan - October 13 2012 at 09:52

At the risk of sounding glib and/or flippant: Equating an anonymous vote in a poll with a rating only review is for me a tad tenuous. The principal reason the site sanctions ratings only reviews is to allow non english speakers to contribute to and participate in the site content. (similarly for those whose writing abilities cannot stretch to a written review)
The forum is an English speaking forum only and we make that clear in the site guidelines.
Re the voter's name - I'm not sure what benefit this would bring and what sad sack's gonna sit down and analyse voting patterns on a musical appreciation website anyway

thellama73 wrote: I vote that the poll results should be invisible to all users until the author closes the poll. Seeing the results before voting can lead to bias. Don't we want to be scientific here?

I like this idea hugely, that would make polls waay more fun (and probably provide a modicum of accuracy)

I vote that the poll results should be invisible to all users until the author closes the poll. Seeing the results before voting can lead to bias. Don't we want to be scientific here?

Also, there is a self-selection bias since only people who sign up for the forum voluntarily vote. That means we are over representing prog fans, internet users and people with too much spare time. We should really be doing random telephone surveys (although those are not without their problems as well.)

This is very important to catch all those horrible people who post negatively about Dream Theater then vote positively for them in EVERY poll. Time to weed out those commie pinkos! Also, we need to know their addresses, phone numbers and shoe sizes.

Logan, I don't think its a very strong argument to compare forum votes to album ratings. I'm sure there are plenty of people who visit the site to see ratings and reviews who never bother with the forum. Band bios, album info and user reviews are the face of the site, so having transparency is fairly important. Forum polls are just mindless fun and only serve a handful of forum users. The anonymity is part of the fun.

That's the spirit.  Big Brother, as I alluded to before, is watching you.  This site isn't a democracy, so why have any illusion of one?

By the way, for those that would worry about the "undemocratic" nature of not having secret votes, how do you feel about having to have your user-name recorded when you rate an album in the database (I think it's a fair analogy)?  And having a list of your ratings made public?

I also think that it might lessen knee-jerk reactions in polls if it is being recorded (more chance that someone will think through their vote before voting, and then more chance that that person will actually involve him or herself in discussion which can create more vibrant topics).

Perhaps the users album ratings should be anonymous by default then too.

A goodly portion of people do mention what they vote for and why, and many give some reasons to illustrate why they vote a certain way.  I'm one of those who has been more likely to mention my vote and forget to actually vote.

I understand people's qualms about more of a Big Broth state/ greater surveillance, but I don't see problems with implementing the ability to be able to choose to see who voted and what people voted for.  We brought in regulations that only people with 40, or whatever it is, posts could vote, and maybe had we had the system in place to be able to see who voted (and the ability to see if those users had multiple accounts) then we wouldn't have to do that.  If it were brought in, it would be announced that the names of voters and their votes would be recorded, and for those that it bothers, they could avoid voting.

I know "default" was said, which was a well-chosen word, so this doesn't follow well, but I still will note that very rarely does anyone choose to enable the option to "Make Poll only (no replies allowed)" when setting up polls.  Of course one wants to give options.  What I would like, at least (not something I would expect or think it would be feasible under our software, but would like), is to be able to make polls which require a reply if one is to vote.  I feel like a bit of a  hypocrite saying that, however, as I have "voted" (so to speak) for a numerical rating for many albums in the database without writing a post (a review) to go along with that rating.

I'm not sure why people, generally, at PA would want to "hide" what the voted for.  I've never really fully understood the silent voter mentality outside of certain political actions.  I think there's more chance for abuse when people are not required to divulge what the voted for in Prog Polls matters such as "How would you rate Dream Theater's latest album", I think it more likely that people will vote without having even heard it, which can be a problem with ratings without reviews as well.  No, it's not that big a deal, but I would like to encourage more people to come out and discuss their opinions, and this might help somewhat.  And if people know that their votes are being recorded, then there would be less chance for abuse of one's voting privileges.

I often see when there is a negative option on a poll that silent people come in to vote for the negative option.  Is it that they're nervous to express their opinion?  They shouldn't be.  I think it's often people who just want to irritate and deflate in an anonymous way and or are up to hi-jinx.  For instance, they see a RIO band name, and they profess a general hate of RIO so automatically vote in a negative way towards it without knowing the material.  I don't trust the kind of person who needs to feel anonymous in such matters.  As  a passionate music lover, I don't feel the need here to hide my disdain or adoration under a bushel, and expressing my disdain has never got me flamed that I can think of ( iry not to be inflammatory in the way I express myself generally in such matters).

Side:note:  I am generally more interested in why people voted a certain way than what they voted for, and recording votes in and of themselves will not tell you why.  But if you're familiar with that person's tastes and views, then just knowing what they voted for is meaningful, and it also lends itself to more interesting and meaningful statistical analysis, I think.

Perhaps with some more sensitive and politically infused  topics' polls (say to do with site policy and management), we would keep anonymous voting.  And perhaps when it comes to political polls and other more sensitive ones.

I secretly voted in this poll

I'd say no. Voting should be anonymous by default.

Absolutely not.