The Single Non-Event that Changed Prog Rock ?

lazland wrote: Punk did virtually nothing to destroy prog, excepting in the eyes of the trendy & fashionable media, a silly trait that lasts to this day in most music publications, although, of course, they never bleat on about just how sad it is that The Pistols reform or UK Subs crawl around pubs & clubs still The bands we love still continued, and, indeed, continue to this day, to sell out conert halls or stadiums, sell truckloads of records, and inspired a whole new generation of great bands. Punk did NOT kill prog

No, No, No No No, Agreed, Punk didn't kill Prog. Prog did get cut off as an ascending art form quite severely at the end of the 70s though. This was done not by Punk, but the social/historical forces which brought punk to prominence. I'm becoming extremely interested in the question of historical progression of music and art lately, and I've not got much out of it so far except that the progression (or regression) of music is extremely forceful, quick and hard to attribute to any one thing. You see how so many fads are created and how so many apparently fruitful trends hit the ceiling very dramatically.

Its only speculation at this point, but I think it is wise to see the sixties musical direction in Rock and the Progressive Rock trend proper as one movement, and to identify them with cultural modernism which we identify as "60s spirit" and to identify Punk and the 80s music trends as part of a post-modernist cultural backlash (reflected in politics so acutely by the rise of Thatcher/Reagen, that's just one example in one area). I think this model is a good start to understanding the change over, and the evolution and reflection of all the minor trends into quite different trends which are related in non-obvious ways.

Make sense? I'm not suggesting my model should be adopted but its the sort of thing that should be worked towards, "Punk Killing Prog" doesn't say much, I think we all agree

I waded through all of this to see if anybody mentioned it, but I didn't see a mention.  When Genesis released Duke it seemed like that gave most progressive artists permission to explore more popular music.

DangerousCurves wrote: My former house mate is a mega Muse fan and he cringed when I called Muse prog. I'm not sure he thought they were indie, I think he thought they were a rock band who were a bit different. I used to tease him by showing him Classic Rock Presents Prog magazines with them in, especially when they were on the cover!

Prog truly is "The Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name". Steve Hillage always makes me laugh with his efforts to deny  associations with the genre, stating he's "Not happy with the prog tag" in seemingly every interview I've read with him in the last few years (this from a man who was in Gong and made albums like L and Fish Rising). In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he actually changed his name to Steve "I'm not Prog" Hillage.

sigod wrote: You can't fault Bruce Foxton for playing one of THE most iconic prog instruments on the planet, The mighty Rickebacker Bass.   Ironically the rise of punk, new wave and the indie scene actually drove Prog back into the underground where it had originally came from. Prog today might even have a better claim at being the real alternative to mainstream music as it owes it's continued existance to the support of it's fans rather than the huge PR and media machines that sustain todays stadium acts.

You can't fault Bruce Foxton for playing one of THE most iconic prog instruments on the planet, The mighty Rickebacker Bass.

Edited by sigod - February 12 2010 at 09:30

Snow Dog wrote:   I bloody loathe Style Council btw!

A Jam purist eh? You're missing out Snow Dog, Cafe Bleu is a great album!

Cactus Choir wrote: Snow Dog wrote: Cactus Choir wrote: [ None of the punk bands (the Jam, the Clash, the Pistols) became a global commercial phenomenon like Floyd, Zep, Yes etc,  Well...The Jam weren't a punk band. But The Clash had massive worlwide success. They had some hit singles but I don't think they sold anything like the number of albums Pink Floyd or even Yes did. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. Surely the Jam were punk at least in spirit and in terms of being part of that movement (always preferred the Style Council myself).

harmonium.ro wrote: I wish punk would have wiped out AOR and hair-metal too, though.

The thing with some modern prog bands is: Do Muse or Mars Volta fans bopping along at Wembley Arena think they're listening to prog? I imagine a lot of Muse fans who are young and not necessarily clued up about music history think Matt Bellamy and co. are just an indie rock band, and might not pick up a Yes or Genesis album. 

Raff wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Raff wrote: Just a question for you and others... Are the mainstream media really that important? Is being praised by them really the highest accolade one can receive - not to mention being inducted in that joke that is the R'n'R Hall of Fame?  As we all should know by now, this is a world that rewards shallowness and mediocrity at all levels. Let them set up their idols and tear them down in the space of a few months - we will continue to enjoy what we want, regardless of what the 'majority' thinks of it.  Yes, that's a valid perspective Raff and I do agree that it really shouldn't matter a discarded fig what the prevailing media view of your favourite music is BUT: If the marketplace is skewed sufficiently so that it ceases to become viable for aspiring prog artists/bands to pursue careers it does effect our ability as consumers to source the types of new/fresh  prog that we seek. Do you remember trying to buy jeans that weren't narrow in circa '77 ? (Quantum Calculus would have been easier ) What you say is very true, but I'm afraid it is a reflection of the way the whole world is going. If you think about it, nowadays everything is much more about quantity than quality. While in the past you bought things (cars, electrical appliances, furniture, clothes... you name it) that were built to last for a long time, nowadays you are lucky if you can keep anything for five years before you have to chuck it away. China has become a world power because of that.  I believe the same is true about music and art in general - the market is mostly structured to accommodate one-day wonders, and the real quality stuff is unfortunately fated to be little more than an underground phenomenon, even if occasionally emerging from near-obscurity.

That's about the best discourse I have seen about the modern throwaway society I have seen in ages. Also witness the interminable and frankly obscene obsession with so called celebs who dominate virtually every facet of the media, even extending to the old quality press.

However, I do take a very healthy and positive attitude to the whole debate. Witness the number of young, intelligent, and discerning people who contribute to this and other forums. They are proof positive that quality music, art, political debate, and civilisation itself is in safe hands.