That Lifeson Sound...

He also uses sus chords alot, especially barred Asus2.

cobb2 wrote: I have just been working on the guitar parts in Spirit of the Radio and Xanadu and have found something common between them both and of interest. Most of the bar chords leave strings 1 and 2 open and these two open strings are used as an integral part of the sound. In classical guitar terms this is called campanellas or the sound of bells. From this limited experience with Lifeson's guitar work, I have found that the amp sound is not as important as getting this 'sound of bells' happening- just a thought...

I have just been working on the guitar parts in Spirit of the Radio and Xanadu and have found something common between them both and of interest. Most of the bar chords leave strings 1 and 2 open and these two open strings are used as an integral part of the sound. In classical guitar terms this is called campanellas or the sound of bells. From this limited experience with Lifeson's guitar work, I have found that the amp sound is not as important as getting this 'sound of bells' happening- just a thought...

Hehe I agree with Negoba and Harry (Hughes JB4) in most aspects, you guys both have good points and just combine the two to make great awesome point.

Negoba wrote: But you get to a point where you realize that whether you're flanged, distorted, Twinned or Marshalled, you still sound like yourself. And what makes people turn arond and say "Holy crap, listen to that tone," a la Gilmour, Lifeson, Hetfield in the case of rhythm, is in the hands. You do need adequate equipment to get to the starting line (though there are multiple ways to get "adequate") but winning the race come from the player.

^I think Dimebag Darrel is a great player, lots of feeling in his playing.
Excellent technique, and even when he was drunk he could play cleaner than most guys playing sober.
But I think he has some of the worst guitar tone in the history of heavy metal guitar.
If he's playing is so great yet he has a horrible, thin, buzzy, harsh and grating tone, wouldn't you say that's the fault of his choice in amps?
Not sure if you're a fan or not, but the album Cowboys from Hell is a great example of this.
Listening to the solo in Cemetery Gates, it's clear he puts lots of nuances into his playing and that he could sound as professional a player as anyway out there.
But let's face it, I can't stand listening to the album anywhere above a human talking conversation level, because his tone is so bad the higher you turn the volume up while listening to it the worse his guitar tone seems to get.
He's tone (IMO) is bad, period, regardless of how amazing his playing was.
Chances are, if he had plugged into a Mesa Boogie Rectifier instead of those garbage low end Randall amps he was using, his tone would have been good.
And many people agree with this, not just me.
Even Dimebag fanboys confess to hating his guitar tone, as much as they are in awe of his playing.

Same with Randy Rhoads.
I think his tone on Tribute was absolutely horrendously bad. Honestly, you could get a better tone from a 30 watt Line 6 Spider combo amp than he did from his expensive Marshall amps.
It sounds buzzy and disgusting to me, and again, like Cowboys from Hell, I cannot listen to this album at high volumes because the guitar sound feels like it's piercing my ears.
I'm blown away by his playing, and I think he's one of the greatest musicians that ever walked this planet, but it doesn't matter how amazing his playing is, I think his tone was terrible and just sounds like buzzing bees on that album.

Tony Iommi, another example of a man blessed with great playing, but yet, again, proves my point that playing style is in the fingers and tone is in the equipment.
His guitar solo in Paranoid is some of the worst guitar tone in history. It sounds like this strange, buzzy, plasticy mess.
Again, I think had been able to have had access to better gear his tone would have been way better.
I wouldn't be proud to have Tony Iommi's guitar tone to be frank.
You notice the difference, for example, if you fast forward 28 years later to their "Reunion" album, he had access to fair better equipment and as a result, his tone improved massively from the Paranoid days and yet..........it's still the same guy playing with the same playing style


On the other side of the coin, let's take Iron Maiden or more specifically, let's choose the album Piece Of Mind.
Sure enough, neither Adrian Smith or Dave Murray had the chops of Dimebag Darrel or Randy Rhoads.
But despite that, Piece of Mind, IMO, is some of the best guitar tone tone in heavy metal recorded with Marshall amps.
Smooth, yet plenty of bite on rhythm guitar, and a nice, full, creamy and very pleasant to listen to lead guitar sound




Edited by HughesJB4 - February 18 2009 at 02:59

Negoba wrote: Umm, no. It is legendary how many people would play through EVH's rig and have nothing near his tone.

of course that's true, my point was that quality equipment can raise your playing.. it also presents it in a premium light  ..it's the difference between working with quality materials and cheap stuff, your skills don't necessarily improve but the finished product is superior

Umm, no. It is legendary how many people would play through EVH's rig and have nothing near his tone. I'll be back to explain later but I'm heading to work. I have a computer there.

Negoba wrote: Be careful spending too much money. 90% of your tone comes from your fingers. I've discovered this the hard way. I still sound like me no matter what amp and guitar I use. Buy the equipment that makes your sound sound best. But knowing what the greats use is great fun!!!

Sorry, but the notion that tone comes from the fingers is garbage.
Playing style comes from the fingers. Tone comes from the equipment.

If tone came from the fingers, why use a guitar amp? Because according to your reasoning, we can get most of our tone without equipment (just need the guitar). We can just pick a guitar up, not have to plug it in and we get our tone.

No amount of good equipment and tone is going to save a bad player. You can have a Bogner Uberschall and if you can't play anything worth a crap, you will sound bad, but this is nothing to do with tone, this is due to a lack of being able to play properly, hence playing style.

And no amount of the best playing in the world is going to make a 40 dollar practice amp that has been beaten up sound good.
Shawn Lane will have crap tone through a 40 dollar, 10 watt solid state, 6.5 inch speaker practice amp that has been thrown off the roof of a house a couple of times and keeps cutting out and in as he plays.
But he would (would, as opposed to will, because he kinda isn't alive to be around to play anymore RIP Shawn Lane) still be an immense player  and have amazing playing style.

No amount of good technique and ability to play will make someone playing through a Fender Twin reverb with no effects set on the clean channel will sound like a Soldano SLO 100 with the gain maxed out and boosted with a Keely moded Ibanez TS-9 Tube Scream, with a TC electronics rack mount effects processor through Vader 4x12 speaker cab.

You still play the same (essentially) through those two set ups. Same playing style.
But through the first set up, you will sound like you Fender Twin reverb with no effects set on the clean channel, but you have the tone of  a Fender Twin reverb with no effects set on the clean channel.

With the other set up, you're playing style remains as always, but your tone is a Soldano SLO 100 with the gain maxed out and boosted with a Keely moded Ibanez TS-9 Tube Scream, with a TC electronics rack mount effects processor through Vader 4x12 speaker cab..
This is inescapable fact.
 
I really wanted to get that distinction between playing style and tone out there, because they are commonly confused with each other.


BUT......when you said this, you got it right : Buy the equipment that makes your sound sound best.

To an extent, you play for your equipment.
That sounds weird, but it's the reason why people will choose a particular amp over another.
Some amps, you literally have to learn how to play them, they almost become instruments themselves, because you have to know what amps can bring out certain nuances and aspects of your technique for your playing style in the best way possible to be truly happy with your tone.
For example, some people give the Mesa Boogie Rectifer a miss because they are too unforgiving for sloppy playing and will make your playing style sound bad if you don't have the technique, but on the other hand, because they are so dyanmic and reactive to how you play, if you have good technique you will be rewarded by blowing away other guitarists with the sheer power of your tone.
If you've ever heard an extremely proficient and powerful rhythm guitarist in a metal band playing through a Rectifier, you're face will be torn in half, because few amps on the planet can sound that amazing and crushing for metal playing.
To an extent, certain pickup choices can enhance or decrease how unforgiving the amp will be.
Steve Vai, for example, use a Carvin Legacy, well known for being unforgiving to guys that can't play well, but they absolutely scream in the right hands, like Vai's hands because he learnt how to play for the amp and to get the best out of it.

Or you can get a more forgiving amp if your technique is not up to scratch, but on the flipside, guys with their technique down well might not be as blown away by the amp because it isn't as reactive to their playing.
Joe Satriani uses the Peavey JSX head, although he no longer uses the distortion channels in the amp but used to anyway. And of course, you would be well aware of his credentials as a virtuoso with incredible technique and ability to inject subtle nuances into his playing to boot.
The amp has a reputation of being in the middle ground between unforgiving and forgiving, but because Joe Satriani uses pickups that are highly sensitive and will pickup mistakes in playing that other pickups wont pickup (if you've ever played Dimarzio PAF Pro pickups, you'll know how sensitive they are......imagine that, magnified by 10 with the pickups that Joe uses) , he can still sound explosive and incredibly dynamic through an amp that is in the middle ground between unforgiving and forgiving, but it has also to do with the fact the amp is of course designed with lead players in mind, and as a result will help a good lead player sound dynamic.



Edited by HughesJB4 - January 30 2009 at 22:13

^^  This is so very, very true.  Rick Nielson of Cheap Trick used to brag that he could make any guitar or amp sound like sh*t., and Clapton tell some great stories about playing through B B King's rig, but not being able to sound anything like B.B..