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el dingo View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 10 2009 at 03:51
Originally posted by fil karada fil karada wrote:

I answer with a question: did the Beatles need someone better than Ringo?
 
1963-1970 no they didn't.
 
Had they stayed together and gone more prog as a unit then, theoretically, yes. But I'm no-one to say Ringo couldn't have evolved further. Had they stayed together, it seems unlikely the band would have thought "oh, we're prog now, let's get rid of Ringo." IMO.
 
Any inadequacies could easily have been covered up in the studio anyway.
It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Points: 10 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 20:14

In the context of the 60's, Ringo wasn't a technical but a brilliant and talented drummer, disciplined, innovator, very musical, he had a unique and distinctive sound and had a special ability to create interesting rhythmic structures; he wanted to serve the songs rather than show off. Ringo played “rim shot” before Bill Bruford in 1964 and 1965 (listen “I Call Your Name”, “Help!” and “In My Life”). He knew how to play a tropical mambo (“I Feel Fine”), a Vals with brushes (“A Taste of Honey”), a Latin bolero with bongos (“And I Love Her”) and so on. Listen some disciplined drums passages on: “Happiness Is A Warm Gun”, “Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey” or the “Abbey Road suite”. Many drummers from the sixties were virtuosos like John Bonham or Ginger Baker but with not enough discipline to do only a couple of bass drum on “Norwegian Wood” or a little passage on “Martha My Dear”. That is music and progressive means discipline. Do you think Keith Moon could have been played with the Beatles with his non stop drumming? We are sure He did a good job with The Who but, also, we know Ringo did a good job with the Beatles.
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 19:18

To paraphrase, if you can't appreciate Ringo's drumming, you got a hole in your soul.

 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 279 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 18:19
I answer with a question: did the Beatles need someone better than Ringo?


Some people find joy in knowledge. Some people find joy in ignorance. Some people just enjoy music.
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Points: 69 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 15:27
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:


Only partly true I'm afraid. He had a reputation as the best drummer in Liverpool.
 
Well, that's no great endorsement, is it ? LOL
 
 
Of his drumming with The Beatles, Ringo Star said :
 
""I started to be an engineer but I banged me thumb on the first day. I became a drummer because it was the only thing I could do. But whenever I hear another drummer I know I'm no good. John learned me the song I sing. I can only play on the off beat because John can't keep up on the rhythm guitar. I'm no good on the technical things but I'm good with all the motions, swinging my head, like. That's because I love to dance but you can't do that on the drums.
 
There you are - straight from the horse's mouth. Tongue
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Points: 2146 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 15:01
^^ That's exactly what I'm talking about!
 
You Quisling you!
 
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Points: 20032 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 14:51
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

This has turned into a smear campaign against Ringo. Most of what has been said is not based on facts.
 
Thanks to Negoba and others for trying to countebalance the fiction.
 
When is someone going to tell us that Ringo never really played drums on the records?

Ringo didn't play the drums on (one version of) "Love Me Do", or "Back in the USSR" or "Dear Prudence" or "The Ballad of John and Yoko" or "Why Don't we do it in the Road".

I'll shut up now.
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Points: 2146 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 14:44
This has turned into a smear campaign against Ringo. Most of what has been said is not based on facts.
 
Thanks to Negoba and others for trying to countebalance the fiction.
 
When is someone going to tell us that Ringo never really played drums on the records?
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Points: 20032 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 14:43
Originally posted by Keltic Keltic wrote:

Not the technically most proficient. Ringo was a very average drummer and was recruited by The Beatles more for his image and sense of humour. He got on well with John.
 
If I could err on the diplomatic side, he was probably as good a singer as he was drummer. His voice -overs on Thomas the Engine were excellent though. Wink

Only partly true I'm afraid. He had a reputation as the best drummer in Liverpool.
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 14:21
ummm, no. Thanks for playing
 
From Wikipedia
 
Drumming ability and appreciation

Lennon said of Starr:

“ Ringo was a star in his own right in Liverpool before we even met. Ringo was a professional drummer who sang and performed and was in one of the top groups in Britain [Rory Storm and the Hurricanes] but especially in Liverpool. ... Ringo's a damn good drummer.[25] ”

Drummer Steve Smith said:

“ Before Ringo, drum stars were measured by their soloing ability and virtuosity. Ringo's popularity brought forth a new paradigm in how the public saw drummers. We started to see the drummer as an equal participant in the compositional aspect. One of Ringo's great qualities was that he composed unique, stylistic drum parts for The Beatles songs. His parts are so signature to the songs that you can listen to a Ringo drum part without the rest of the music and still identify the song.[26]
 
Many drummers list Starr as an influence, including Phil Collins, Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater and others.[28] According to Collins, "Starr is vastly underrated. The drum fills on the song "A Day in the Life" are very complex things. You could take a great drummer today and say, 'I want it like that.' He wouldn't know what to do."[29]
 
 
Steve Smith, Phil Collins, Mike Portnoy......they might know something about these things.


Edited by Negoba - March 08 2009 at 14:24
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 69 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 11:08
Not the technically most proficient. Ringo was a very average drummer and was recruited by The Beatles more for his image and sense of humour. He got on well with John.
 
If I could err on the diplomatic side, he was probably as good a singer as he was drummer. His voice -overs on Thomas the Engine were excellent though. Wink


Edited by Keltic - March 08 2009 at 11:09
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Points: 1698 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2009 at 00:34
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Ringo was picked up because he was the most professionally experienced drummer in the local scene the Beatles had played in. They frequently had opened for his band. So they picked him up and what did they get, a consummate professional whose solidity (along with George Martin) kept the beautiful thing that was the Beatles together. He's basically an early 60's studio drummer, he composed perfect, though often simple, drum parts for songs spanning a massive breadth. He never played something that didn't add to or support the song. There are many technically dazzling drummers who wouldn't know how to write their parts as intrinsically to the song as Ringo. Even if it's a 11/8 beat and fantastic fills, that's not the same as a percussion part designed specifically for a particular piece of music. And that is only one small part of songwriting. He didn't write most of the Beatles songs he sang on, he wasn't a great songwriter like the other 3 were, he was however a very very good studio level drummer typical of his era.

 
I'll put in another plug for "Revolution in the Head" by the late Ian MacDonald. That's an incredible piece of work.
 
Agree 100%. If I could have phrased it like that, that's exactly what I think. Ringo was a great tasteful drummer, with a good ear for what sounds the best for a song.
 
Agree with your post below it too.

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Points: 20 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2009 at 16:46
He was probably in the top three drummers in the beatles.
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Points: 1601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2009 at 19:16
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Okay, I've heard every side of the story...
 
"Ringo's underrated he has great rythm!!"
"He's overrated, he's not technical!!"
"He's okay."
 
But what do progheads think??
 
I personally think he is good for the 60's, but still isn't great or anything.
Just wondering what you thought!Smile
 
What does "good for the sixties" mean?  Becuase personally, I think Robert Wyatt destroys most drummers out there, same with Michael Giles, not to mention how much better Jazz drummers are than the average drummer, including prog.
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Points: 2614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2009 at 18:11
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Ringo was picked up because he was the most professionally experienced drummer in the local scene the Beatles had played in. They frequently had opened for his band. So they picked him up and what did they get, a consummate professional whose solidity (along with George Martin) kept the beautiful thing that was the Beatles together. He's basically an early 60's studio drummer, he composed perfect, though often simple, drum parts for songs spanning a massive breadth. He never played something that didn't add to or support the song. There are many technically dazzling drummers who wouldn't know how to write their parts as intrinsically to the song as Ringo. Even if it's a 11/8 beat and fantastic fills, that's not the same as a percussion part designed specifically for a particular piece of music. And that is only one small part of songwriting. He didn't write most of the Beatles songs he sang on, he wasn't a great songwriter like the other 3 were, he was however a very very good studio level drummer typical of his era.

 
I'll put in another plug for "Revolution in the Head" by the late Ian MacDonald. That's an incredible piece of work.

BRAVO!!!! Clap Clap ClapClapClap
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2009 at 15:17
^I think this point makes a lot of sense. After all, to claim that the man wasn't even a musician is a bit of a stretch. He had fantastic rhythm, and held the music together. He's no Bruford or Pace or any of the other more frequently cited rock/prog drummers, but he certainly wasn't mediocre at drumming in general.
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2009 at 14:53
BTW, if you ever speak poorly of Ringo's drumming among real musicians, you immediately identify yourself as an idiot. Trust me on this one. 

Edited by Negoba - February 20 2009 at 14:55
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2009 at 14:48

Ringo was picked up because he was the most professionally experienced drummer in the local scene the Beatles had played in. They frequently had opened for his band. So they picked him up and what did they get, a consummate professional whose solidity (along with George Martin) kept the beautiful thing that was the Beatles together. He's basically an early 60's studio drummer, he composed perfect, though often simple, drum parts for songs spanning a massive breadth. He never played something that didn't add to or support the song. There are many technically dazzling drummers who wouldn't know how to write their parts as intrinsically to the song as Ringo. Even if it's a 11/8 beat and fantastic fills, that's not the same as a percussion part designed specifically for a particular piece of music. And that is only one small part of songwriting. He didn't write most of the Beatles songs he sang on, he wasn't a great songwriter like the other 3 were, he was however a very very good studio level drummer typical of his era.

 
I'll put in another plug for "Revolution in the Head" by the late Ian MacDonald. That's an incredible piece of work.


Edited by Negoba - February 20 2009 at 14:51
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2009 at 13:22
I think if he would be honest with himself, even Ringo wouldn't think he was a great drummer technically.
 
But come on, people, listen to the other drumming that came out of the late 50s and early 60s. Ringo was outplaying them easily. Yes, once The Beatles got big, the drummers that would rivasl and indeed surpass him began to show up, but for the time that he first joined the group (especially in Liverpool), there was no one better for the job.
 
And I think we can all agree that without him, The Beatles wouldn't have quite been the same. He contributed enough to the songwriting to where the difference would have definately been heard.
 
My opinion.
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2009 at 01:41
Originally posted by zappaholic zappaholic wrote:

A sturdy and reliable timekeeper.  Not very ambitious, but he didn't need to be.
 
I put him, Charlie Watts and Kenny Aronoff in the same category.  No frills, and steady as a rock.
 
 
 
Exactly! Except I would like to add that Ringo was also more of a "persona" than an outright musician, John, Paul and George were musical geniuses but Ringo WAS the fun, the character and the least pretentious of all the Rock Stars. Bless him for it BTW!Clap
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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