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Topic ClosedMcCain or Obama
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Poll Question: John McCain or Barack Obama?
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    Posted: November 06 2008 at 17:46
Ok, folks, elections already decided and it's history now.
 
Any further discussions to be done here:
Guigo

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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 17:35
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

I don't understand how,

a) how your electoral representation system can support three realistic candidates


It can't.


I'm skeptical it can support two. Tongue


By the way, that made me laugh even if I don't support the sentiment.
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 17:21
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

I don't understand how,

a) how your electoral representation system can support three realistic candidates


It can't.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 17:16
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

I don't understand how,

a) how your electoral representation system can support three realistic candidates

b) how any of the third parties running were anything other than actually insane people who didn't understand you can't just become president out of nowhere


As an insane person myself, I really resent that remark.Tongue

I'm not entirely certain how we get to a system with viable alternative parties.  I do know we'll never get there if they don't at least try.  Look at us here in Georgia.  If it weren't for the Libertarian candidate for senate, Chambliss would have got in without a runoff.  Now it remains to be seen if he can pull it off.
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 17:14
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

I don't understand how,

a) how your electoral representation system can support three realistic candidates

b) how any of the third parties running were anything other than actually insane people who didn't understand you can't just become president out of nowhere

I agree, there really is no simple solution in this country, because unlike a lot of other countries in Europe especially, we've never allowed a third party to gain a foothold in our political environment. Personally, I'd actually support Ron Paul if it wasn't for the fact that I find some of his beliefs and things he says to be......far out there.LOL But until we can find enough competent, ordinary people who are willing to try and actually make some decent changes in Washington by dragging the current politicians out of there kicking and screaming, then nothing's going to change.
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Points: 7606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 17:08
I don't understand how,

a) how your electoral representation system can support three realistic candidates

b) how any of the third parties running were anything other than actually insane people who didn't understand you can't just become president out of nowhere
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 17:07
Originally posted by E-Dub E-Dub wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Republicans are so evil! 


I'm sure some of the Republicans mean well some of the time.  There are some in my neighborhood that seem to be totally respectable citizens.  But let's face it, when the Democratic party started to embrace civil rights, all of the nasty types began jumping ship to the Republican party. 

Remains to be seen if the sensible moderates will take back control.  If that day should come, I might actually consider voting for an R or two. 

But lets face it, they went from being the party of Lincoln, then became corrupt to match Democratic corruption going on the 19th century, were briefly progressive with T. Roosevelt, then were totally taken over by selfish wealthy people. Then they sucked up the racists and religio-fascists, buoyed by the support of those who vote against their own economic self interests.  Not a stable coalition in my estimation.  If it is in fact coming apart at the seams, it's their just desserts.


Man, just like Seinfeld said, you hold a grudge like Khomeini. I'm sure there might be a bit of an 'old boy network', but I thought McCain's concession speech the other night shows that Republicans are embracing their new President. How could you not be moved by McCain's speech. Granted, you voted for Obama, but I've heard Dems around the office and even at coffee shops absolutely stunned by his speech.

We're not all hooded cross burners, you know.

E


I hold no grudges, except maybe for the way Republican politicians have been behaving in my lifetime.

Look I know that you're not all hooded cross burners (some of you are though), but I was merely pointing out the historical context of the Republican party evolution.  Oops, sorry, many of you don't believe in that. 

Are you a uniform lot?  Not in the least.  Still, hard to be moved by McCain's speech after he ran such a vile campaign.  Who gets the credit for that John or his underlings?  Here's to the moderates and reasonable folks reclaiming your party.  In the meantime, I'll be enjoying all the back biting and inter-party finger pointing for the loss of this election.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 06 2008 at 17:09
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 17:05
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Republicans are so evil! 


I'm sure some of the Republicans mean well some of the time.  There are some in my neighborhood that seem to be totally respectable citizens.  But let's face it, when the Democratic party started to embrace civil rights, all of the nasty types began jumping ship to the Republican party. 

Remains to be seen if the sensible moderates will take back control.  If that day should come, I might actually consider voting for an R or two. 

But lets face it, they went from being the party of Lincoln, then became corrupt to match Democratic corruption going on the 19th century, were briefly progressive with T. Roosevelt, then were totally taken over by selfish wealthy people. Then they sucked up the racists and religio-fascists, buoyed by the support of those who vote against their own economic self interests.  Not a stable coalition in my estimation.  If it is in fact coming apart at the seams, it's their just desserts.


My point is that it's just a cycle - Democrats get thrown out on their asses in 1994, Republicans get thrown out on their asses this year, wash, rinse, repeat.  It's because it's mostly all platitudes and no real problem solving.  Then some number of years later, when the problems are obviously still there, everyone's convinced that Party X is a failure and Party Y has all the answers.  The point is none of them do.

But hey, if Obama and co. can make things better for our country, I'm all for it, don't care who it comes from.

Thank you, Pat. I guess that's what I was trying to get across. Until people realize that the role of government is not to provide everything for them, then I'm afraid we're doomed to this endless cycle of party shifts every X number of years. I think too many young people like myself are to used to getting most things spoon-fed to them and thinking that the government is going to make sure they'll have a job, get their college tuition payed, help them buy a house, etc. Sometimes I wonder how many people in my age group know what the Constitution is talking about. I mean, at this point, we might as well give ours to the Iraqi people, since we don't use it anymore.

Bah! Until the electorate changes, not much is going to change.
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 16:59
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Republicans are so evil! 


I'm sure some of the Republicans mean well some of the time.  There are some in my neighborhood that seem to be totally respectable citizens.  But let's face it, when the Democratic party started to embrace civil rights, all of the nasty types began jumping ship to the Republican party. 

Remains to be seen if the sensible moderates will take back control.  If that day should come, I might actually consider voting for an R or two. 

But lets face it, they went from being the party of Lincoln, then became corrupt to match Democratic corruption going on the 19th century, were briefly progressive with T. Roosevelt, then were totally taken over by selfish wealthy people. Then they sucked up the racists and religio-fascists, buoyed by the support of those who vote against their own economic self interests.  Not a stable coalition in my estimation.  If it is in fact coming apart at the seams, it's their just desserts.


My point is that it's just a cycle - Democrats get thrown out on their asses in 1994, Republicans get thrown out on their asses this year, wash, rinse, repeat.  It's because it's mostly all platitudes and no real problem solving.  Then some number of years later, when the problems are obviously still there, everyone's convinced that Party X is a failure and Party Y has all the answers.  The point is none of them do.

But hey, if Obama and co. can make things better for our country, I'm all for it, don't care who it comes from.
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I think I'll just leave this here.....Wink

By the way, this came from an Australian newspaper. Just thought I'd mention that.


Edited by birdwithteeth11 - November 06 2008 at 17:00
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Originally posted by E-Dub E-Dub wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Republicans are so evil! 


I'm sure some of the Republicans mean well some of the time.  There are some in my neighborhood that seem to be totally respectable citizens.  But let's face it, when the Democratic party started to embrace civil rights, all of the nasty types began jumping ship to the Republican party. 

Remains to be seen if the sensible moderates will take back control.  If that day should come, I might actually consider voting for an R or two. 

But lets face it, they went from being the party of Lincoln, then became corrupt to match Democratic corruption going on the 19th century, were briefly progressive with T. Roosevelt, then were totally taken over by selfish wealthy people. Then they sucked up the racists and religio-fascists, buoyed by the support of those who vote against their own economic self interests.  Not a stable coalition in my estimation.  If it is in fact coming apart at the seams, it's their just desserts.


Man, just like Seinfeld said, you hold a grudge like Khomeini. I'm sure there might be a bit of an 'old boy network', but I thought McCain's concession speech the other night shows that Republicans are embracing their new President. How could you not be moved by McCain's speech. Granted, you voted for Obama, but I've heard Dems around the office and even at coffee shops absolutely stunned by his speech.

We're not all hooded cross burners, you know.

E

Personally, I'm not sure how anyone who has a conservative mindset (like myself, and I know I'm a very small minority these days) can support the Democrats or Republicans. Both parties are corrupt. They might as well be dead. Neither one cares about the future of this country, just trying to get more votes, more power, and more cash into their pockets. At this point we either need: 1) a third party to get involved or 2) to establish term limits and get rid of professional politicians. Because if neither happens, then both parties are just going to keep spending until the day China says, "Pay up" or our senators lose their vacation homes. Either way, I just hope that the next 2 or 4 years work out.
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 16:53
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Damn! I'd  love if you people could read Spanish. You would read some excellent commantary columns in Spanish and Hispanic (latin american) diaries all around the world, in which, in a word, they say that "America is America again". Just for the fact that a black man was chosen, just for the fact that prejudice was overcome, the US is already respected a little bit more today than a couple days ago.
 
I hope Obama is a great president. But now I'm prouder of this adoptive home I have than I have ever been.

Ask me a year from now if you think this country is more unified with Obama at the helm. I guarantee you the skinheads are already planning something.
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 16:53
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Republicans are so evil! 


I'm sure some of the Republicans mean well some of the time.  There are some in my neighborhood that seem to be totally respectable citizens.  But let's face it, when the Democratic party started to embrace civil rights, all of the nasty types began jumping ship to the Republican party. 

Remains to be seen if the sensible moderates will take back control.  If that day should come, I might actually consider voting for an R or two. 

But lets face it, they went from being the party of Lincoln, then became corrupt to match Democratic corruption going on the 19th century, were briefly progressive with T. Roosevelt, then were totally taken over by selfish wealthy people. Then they sucked up the racists and religio-fascists, buoyed by the support of those who vote against their own economic self interests.  Not a stable coalition in my estimation.  If it is in fact coming apart at the seams, it's their just desserts.


Man, just like Seinfeld said, you hold a grudge like Khomeini. I'm sure there might be a bit of an 'old boy network', but I thought McCain's concession speech the other night shows that Republicans are embracing their new President. How could you not be moved by McCain's speech. Granted, you voted for Obama, but I've heard Dems around the office and even at coffee shops absolutely stunned by his speech.

We're not all hooded cross burners, you know.

E
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Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


For the middle one, change 'Neoconservatism' to 'Republicanism', since last I checked, conservatism wasn't represented at all in this year's election.Wink
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Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Republicans are so evil! 


I'm sure some of the Republicans mean well some of the time.  There are some in my neighborhood that seem to be totally respectable citizens.  But let's face it, when the Democratic party started to embrace civil rights, all of the nasty types began jumping ship to the Republican party. 

Remains to be seen if the sensible moderates will take back control.  If that day should come, I might actually consider voting for an R or two. 

But lets face it, they went from being the party of Lincoln, then became corrupt to match Democratic corruption going on the 19th century, were briefly progressive with T. Roosevelt, then were totally taken over by selfish wealthy people. Then they sucked up the racists and religio-fascists, buoyed by the support of those who vote against their own economic self interests.  Not a stable coalition in my estimation.  If it is in fact coming apart at the seams, it's their just desserts.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2008 at 15:41
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Tom Tomorrow:

We’ve regarded our leaders with dread and anxiety for so long, it has come to seem like the normal state of things. It has become a chronic pain, so much a part of our lives that we only really notice it when it subsides — and suddenly the relief is so overwhelming it becomes a tangible thing.

After eight years of an administration whose actions have run the gamut from stupid to venal, we will have a rational president who believes in things like, say, science. Who can string a succession of words together into a coherent sentence.

I confess, if McCain had won, my despair for this country would have been absolute. Instead, the cloud we’ve all been living under for so very long begins to lift, this morning.

The Republicans tried to win with hate and fear and division, and instead they failed. Spectacularly, definitively, repudiated in a landslide. And you know what I hope, at this moment? That Joe the Plumber becomes a widely-used symbol for all that has been wrong with America. That tv commentators invoke his name as shorthand for the politics of stupidity — “Maybe Joe the Plumber thinks we need to put all the Danish-Americans in internment camps, but no rational person agrees!” — and a heartfelt chuckle is had by all, and no more need be said, so universal is the understanding.

I very much want that to be the legacy of Joe the Plumber.

Off to the wilderness with them all. I have no doubt they’ll claw their way back eventually, but at the very least we’ve bought ourselves some breathing room, some time to try to repair the damage they’ve done to the very foundations of this country.

Uncategorized | -->

posted by Tom Tomorrow at 10:30 AM | link


Thumbs up for Tom Tomorrow!
 
Seconded... I clearly agree with everything TomT said.... I'm proud of this country after quiete some time... Viva La' America (I hope for a loooong time..) ClapClapClap
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Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Tom Tomorrow:

We’ve regarded our leaders with dread and anxiety for so long, it has come to seem like the normal state of things. It has become a chronic pain, so much a part of our lives that we only really notice it when it subsides — and suddenly the relief is so overwhelming it becomes a tangible thing.

After eight years of an administration whose actions have run the gamut from stupid to venal, we will have a rational president who believes in things like, say, science. Who can string a succession of words together into a coherent sentence.

I confess, if McCain had won, my despair for this country would have been absolute. Instead, the cloud we’ve all been living under for so very long begins to lift, this morning.

The Republicans tried to win with hate and fear and division, and instead they failed. Spectacularly, definitively, repudiated in a landslide. And you know what I hope, at this moment? That Joe the Plumber becomes a widely-used symbol for all that has been wrong with America. That tv commentators invoke his name as shorthand for the politics of stupidity — “Maybe Joe the Plumber thinks we need to put all the Danish-Americans in internment camps, but no rational person agrees!” — and a heartfelt chuckle is had by all, and no more need be said, so universal is the understanding.

I very much want that to be the legacy of Joe the Plumber.

Off to the wilderness with them all. I have no doubt they’ll claw their way back eventually, but at the very least we’ve bought ourselves some breathing room, some time to try to repair the damage they’ve done to the very foundations of this country.

Uncategorized | -->

posted by Tom Tomorrow at 10:30 AM | link


Yay for Democrats!  Republicans are so evil!  There's no possible way in the next 10-20 years that they would ever take over the White House or Congress!
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Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Tom Tomorrow:

We’ve regarded our leaders with dread and anxiety for so long, it has come to seem like the normal state of things. It has become a chronic pain, so much a part of our lives that we only really notice it when it subsides — and suddenly the relief is so overwhelming it becomes a tangible thing.

After eight years of an administration whose actions have run the gamut from stupid to venal, we will have a rational president who believes in things like, say, science. Who can string a succession of words together into a coherent sentence.

I confess, if McCain had won, my despair for this country would have been absolute. Instead, the cloud we’ve all been living under for so very long begins to lift, this morning.

The Republicans tried to win with hate and fear and division, and instead they failed. Spectacularly, definitively, repudiated in a landslide. And you know what I hope, at this moment? That Joe the Plumber becomes a widely-used symbol for all that has been wrong with America. That tv commentators invoke his name as shorthand for the politics of stupidity — “Maybe Joe the Plumber thinks we need to put all the Danish-Americans in internment camps, but no rational person agrees!” — and a heartfelt chuckle is had by all, and no more need be said, so universal is the understanding.

I very much want that to be the legacy of Joe the Plumber.

Off to the wilderness with them all. I have no doubt they’ll claw their way back eventually, but at the very least we’ve bought ourselves some breathing room, some time to try to repair the damage they’ve done to the very foundations of this country.

Uncategorized | -->

posted by Tom Tomorrow at 10:30 AM | link


Thumbs up for Tom Tomorrow!
Over land and under ashes
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But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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Damn! I'd  love if you people could read Spanish. You would read some excellent commantary columns in Spanish and Hispanic (latin american) diaries all around the world, in which, in a word, they say that "America is America again". Just for the fact that a black man was chosen, just for the fact that prejudice was overcome, the US is already respected a little bit more today than a couple days ago.
 
I hope Obama is a great president. But now I'm prouder of this adoptive home I have than I have ever been.
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Tom Tomorrow:

We’ve regarded our leaders with dread and anxiety for so long, it has come to seem like the normal state of things. It has become a chronic pain, so much a part of our lives that we only really notice it when it subsides — and suddenly the relief is so overwhelming it becomes a tangible thing.

After eight years of an administration whose actions have run the gamut from stupid to venal, we will have a rational president who believes in things like, say, science. Who can string a succession of words together into a coherent sentence.

I confess, if McCain had won, my despair for this country would have been absolute. Instead, the cloud we’ve all been living under for so very long begins to lift, this morning.

The Republicans tried to win with hate and fear and division, and instead they failed. Spectacularly, definitively, repudiated in a landslide. And you know what I hope, at this moment? That Joe the Plumber becomes a widely-used symbol for all that has been wrong with America. That tv commentators invoke his name as shorthand for the politics of stupidity — “Maybe Joe the Plumber thinks we need to put all the Danish-Americans in internment camps, but no rational person agrees!” — and a heartfelt chuckle is had by all, and no more need be said, so universal is the understanding.

I very much want that to be the legacy of Joe the Plumber.

Off to the wilderness with them all. I have no doubt they’ll claw their way back eventually, but at the very least we’ve bought ourselves some breathing room, some time to try to repair the damage they’ve done to the very foundations of this country.

Uncategorized | -->

posted by Tom Tomorrow at 10:30 AM | link
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