Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Tech Talk
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - What good power cords can do
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhat good power cords can do

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
mystic fred View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
Direct Link To This Post Topic: What good power cords can do
    Posted: January 19 2007 at 07:05
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:



...But i'm not the only audiophile here on PA. I know that Mysticfred recently invest in his first power cables, let's ask him what it does on his system.
 
 
yes you're so right, i did find a good improvement on my budget system (snappy treble, rich midrange and tighter bass, more focused imaging and fuller soundstage) after even making a few basic upgrades to the power source and the least expensive (£27-£70) mains cables, it  clearly brings out the different characters within components also! the improved sound is different but very easy to get used to.
 
 see this thread -
 
 
Smile
Prog Archives Tour Van
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2007 at 03:06
HugYing Yang
Ying Yang
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2007 at 01:55
Dirty little tadpole!
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2007 at 14:34
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

I'm sure it's all about whether one wants to hear a difference or not.
Oliver wants to hear a difference, so he does, while Mike doesn't want
to hear a difference, and so does not hear any difference. Don't
underestimate the power of prejudice.

    

On one hand, you have a vague buzzing, on another you have a clean and articulate bass line. Placebo effect?


No - shameless exaggeration beyond any reality.Wink
Back to Top
Philéas View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2007 at 11:09
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

On one hand, you have a vague buzzing, on another you have a clean and articulate bass line. Placebo effect?


Totally possible, actually. I'll even go as far as to say it's probable. If I would have invested 3000 € in a power cable, I'd really expect it to improve the sound, and as a result I would probably hear a difference.
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2007 at 03:11
    Shunyata Research Hydra8 power conditioner


Michael Fremer wrote about the Shunyata Research Hydra 8 in January 2004 (Vol.27 No.1):

Despite the Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista kW's choke-regulated power supplies, and perhaps because of the amount of current these amplifiers pull, their performance was enhanced to an enormous and quite surprising degree by plugging them into Shunyata Research's entirely passive Hydra 8 power-distribution device ($1995).

During my first month of auditioning the kWs, they drew power from the original Hydra. When I was ready to check out the new Hydra 8, I unplugged the original Hydra and plugged the kWs directly into my dedicated line's Hubbell hospital-grade receptacles.

The difference was not subtle. The kWs' basic sonic performance remained, but the picture lost cohesion, the highs had a touch of grain, and the bass seemed in a slightly different time zone—as if these revealing amps were putting my ears in touch with the quality of juice from Rockland Electric's grid. After letting the kWs warm up for another day and continuing to hear the same sound, I turned them off and plugged them into the new Hydra 8, which, as instructed, I'd broken in using a dehumidifier (though I was told an electric fan would work too). The Hydra 8 was connected to the wall with a Shunyata Research Andromeda vX heavy-duty AC cord. Damn if the system didn't return to its former coherent glory, only more so.

There's no space here to go into the technology or theories behind the Hydra 8's operation, but you should give it a try. It's every bit as effective as its supporters say it is, and despite my initial skepticism, I've fallen in line. The Hydra 8 is an amazing product.

Cables were important, but for this review, the Shunyata Research Hydra 8 was the real key to musical satisfaction.—Michael Fremer


    

Edited by oliverstoned - January 18 2007 at 09:16
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2007 at 03:09
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

I'm sure it's all about whether one wants to hear a difference or not.
Oliver wants to hear a difference, so he does, while Mike doesn't want
to hear a difference, and so does not hear any difference. Don't
underestimate the power of prejudice.

    

On one hand, you have a vague buzzing, on another you have a clean and articulate bass line. Placebo effect?
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2007 at 03:08

Power filters (also used in studio, with products such as "La boite noire") proceed exactly from the same idea: provide the purest power to the devices.
There are several technologies for power filtering: simple power isolation, (what i use, with 2 to 3 filtering stage for drive/converters (CD) which pollute a lot because of die-cutting power alimentations which re-inject a lot of electric pollution within the system through interconnects. It results in a huge gain on all parameters). Active filtering like the ones evoke up -however UPS products don't work on a musical level and eat the dynamic- which makes a clean wave AC, like said up.

You can't imagine how transparent good hifi systems can be, cause you base on your experience with poor "systems".

Back to Top
Flyingsod View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 19 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 564
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 22:53
Firepuck, are ya saying you here a differnce in audio quality when you use an UPS compared to when you don't?
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 15:09
^ ok, but that's just what a good power supply does. Power supplies are not designed to only be able to handle perfect sine wave AC - they are built to handle real live AC.
Back to Top
Firepuck View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 28 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 657
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 15:05
I don't know about power cords but I do know that incoming power problems can cause havoc with electronics. Power problems can consist of failures, sags, surges, spikes, line noise, frequency variations, switching transients and harmonic distortion. 
 
This is what I use for both my stereo and computer systems:
 
Powerware 9125 True Online Double Conversion UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply)
 
This UPS is essentially a glorified power bar. It takes AC power, converts it to DC, then converts it to AC (double conversion). The power coming out the back of the unit is pure. The connected load always receives clean, sine wave power.
 
 
 
Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks."
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 14:03
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

I'm sure it's all about whether one wants to hear a difference or not. Oliver wants to hear a difference, so he does, while Mike doesn't want to hear a difference, and so does not hear any difference. Don't underestimate the power of prejudice.


Very true. But in my case the problem's also that I know a lot about electronics, acoustics etc. ... and this prevents me from taking some of the audiophile theories seriously, including the "magic" power cords. There are (next to) no hard facts, no proof that they actually have an effect on the sound - only some audiophiles who claim that the hear a striking difference. When I compare 16bit digital audio to 24bit digital audio then it's obvious that there could be a remarkable difference, but with a simple power cord with no active circuitry which costs €3000 ... sorry, I'm not buying it.

The point is: If there is a really remarkable difference in quality like it is described in the article, most people would recognize it in listening tests ... but they can't. If they could, the companies holding the patents would be conducting these tests all the time ... but they don't. There is a simple way to prove that it works - but they refuse. Go figure.LOL
Back to Top
Angelo View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13244
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 12:12
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

I'm sure it's all about whether one wants to hear a difference or not. Oliver wants to hear a difference, so he does, while Mike doesn't want to hear a difference, and so does not hear any difference. Don't underestimate the power of prejudice.


Hmm - I feel like I'm spoken too. I have wood and metal boxes all around, and I pretty much believe that I won't hear a difference if I change cabling - although different cabinets or cones might. Prejudice in both directions, if someone feels good about 3(0(0(0))) euro cables - that's fine. In the end, I'm more interested in good quality sound to enjoy properly played good music, which has more value to me than listening to any music with perfect sound, (whatever that may be).

Oliver - enjoy your hobby, like we enjoy ours! One day we'll find out who's right and who's fooling himself, and we might be surprised. Big smile
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Back to Top
Philéas View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 11:16
I'm sure it's all about whether one wants to hear a difference or not. Oliver wants to hear a difference, so he does, while Mike doesn't want to hear a difference, and so does not hear any difference. Don't underestimate the power of prejudice.
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 09:54
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

   "Whatever is picked up by a power cord is filtered out by the power supply. Even the best shielded cord cannot prevent any pollution - the pollution has to be filtered, which is the job of the power supply."

No power supply is perfect!


Sure - nothing is perfect, neither the power supply nor the cord. But even average power supplies filter out almost everything that might affect the sound quality - for me it just doesn't make sense to shell out €3000 to remove whatever might remain and which doesn't bother me to begin with.
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 09:47
    Have a look here:

http://www.combak.net/X-DCSMReview.htm
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 09:43
   "Whatever is picked up by a power cord is filtered out by the power supply. Even the best shielded cord cannot prevent any pollution - the pollution has to be filtered, which is the job of the power supply."

No power supply is perfect!
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 09:23
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:


Ive heard, while you have not...and the studios are not bought by powercables companies.

I even worked in a studio for two years (engineering, recording, mixing).

And know that we're are all in extremely polluted environements (with all the waves). Moreover, an unshielded cable is an antenna.

Whatever is picked up by a power cord is filtered out by the power supply. Even the best shielded cord cannot prevent any pollution - the pollution has to be filtered, which is the job of the power supply.

The more transparent the system is, the more you hear that. But i let you with your certitudes and your plastic boxes as hifi system.

1. My main boxes are made of wood and 2. I hear plenty of detail on my system. Allow me to use the same reasoning as you always do: I trust my ears!

Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 09:06

Ive heard, while you have not...and the studios are not bought by powercables companies.

And know that we're are all in extremely polluted environements (with all the waves). Moreover, an unshielded cable is an antenna.

The more transparent the system is, the more you hear that. But i let you with your certitudes and your plastic boxes as hifi system.
Back to Top
Angelo View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13244
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2007 at 08:27
A former collegue of mine has dedicated a whole site to uncovering myths from the audiophile world, using the laws of electronics and physics as his starting point. It's in dutch unfortunately, but does contain some remarks about power cables.
2 bottom lines there:

1. Polarity of the plugs can be an issue, resulting in a humming noise. If that is the case, insert the plug rotated by 180 degrees. Happens mainly in earthed sockets.
2. Apart from this, only when you have sever external disturbances (resulting in noise on the power line) you need to replace your cord or add some additional electronics between the cable and you equipments transformer.

But, if you're happy with these cables, I won't stop you. May the sound be with you.
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.168 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.