Collaborative music project ? |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2830 |
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Posted: 11 hours 50 minutes ago at 10:46 |
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Hi all, back after a short break of a couple of years. ;-) (Just passing through.)
Just briefly skimmed the replies here and, well, surprise, the collaborative project went nowhere. In the interim, I've done several collaborations with a bass playing friend of mine with absolutely no problems at all. This is how it works. (1) you agree on a DAW to use. It helps if you know how to use it. (2) You record all your material on one track. There's no need to mention time signatures, beats per minute or even key, it's all there in the DAW. (3) You zip the files up to someone and send it over to them. We Transfer etc etc for big files. (4) Most importantly, you trust what they're doing and leave their contribution to them. It can either be used or discarded. (5) They do their funky thang and record their audio on a separate track (which you set up for them) - no automation, no effects, that's for the mastering stage. (6) Involving more people ? Rinse and repeat. (7) Everyone then has a discussion - not an argument - about what stays in, what's faded out when etc etc. (8) You don't add to or edit a piece, it causes arguments and slow downs. You go with what you've got. (9) Mixing and mastering from there - end result, track done. It really is that simple. One of the problems I have with PA, and why I left, is that it's a forum where people incessantly pick apart everything and make it as complicated as possible. (That'll cause an argument. ;-) ) I'll probably get 101 pointless replies to this. It's not constructive. It's obstructive and guarantees nothing will happen.
I often think people using this forum will just sit there, and, with nothing to do, come up with some idiotic question like "Is Rogers and Hammerstein prog ?" - result, endless, pointless argument which has just been put up for the sake of something to do. Doing collab projects is simple, it doesn't require 7 pages and133 answers. You just do it. |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13885 |
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Just to clarify, it may be a soundtrack of a novel or a story imagined by me. Otherwise I can improvise something on an instrument until I find a passage that I like. This can later inspire lyrics (no longer in my own case) or just a link to a story or an idea. It's more or less what I mentally do when I listen to instrumentals, like i.e. Tangerine Dream or Vamgelis. I let their music create something in my mind, and sometimes it happens to e also with my own stuff. But once I have an idea, original or taken form somewhere, it helps me in making stuff in line with the feelings that the story gives me. Well I don't succeed very often, honestly. Should I have to rate my stuff I wouldn't go for more than 1-star. Regardless the quality, I have fun making it and sometimes I'm brave enough (or not shy enough) to share it. Of cource I don't pretend to compare myself with a masterpiece, but The Snow Goose is an instrumental made of original material inspired to somebody else's novel. This is an example of what I mean.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, This is always an issue for me ... what creates the music? Your imagination/dream seeing something, or you sitting down and thinking up some sort of ABC to begin something ... both processes bring up different results, however, hearing about folks trying to interpret what they see, specially here, is bizarre ... to me it is just like a new poem, and new words that come alive ... I don't have to think about it, and never do. I wonder if we are "stuck" in an idea that supposedly makes something important or not ... thus we have to make use of our mind thoughts and ideas, in order to think/believe that we did something right ... I'm not convinced that is true at all ... You being the only listener, should not be an issue ... if you do something for your inner self, who gives a fudge about anyone else listening to it ... as Peter Michael Hamel suggested in his book ... there was an old man on top of the mountain playing an instrument he made out of sticks and roots, and he was playing what we thought was the same note ... and he was saying with it, in a sort of singing way ... I GOT IT .. I GOT IT ... and we look at each other and go ... WHAT? We didn't even close our eyes and try to see the movie so we could get an idea of what he "got" ... we don't believe him at all because that is not "normal" like we are! You have to play for you only, and if something happens from there, that's the new chapter in the novel!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13885 |
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It's the way I personally make my poor home-ade stuff. Having a concept in mind, even for just a 2 minutes track makes me focalize on the kind of sounds and progressions to explore. When I was a teen I tried to write songs. Chord progressions influenced lyrics and vice-versa. Now that I'm old and have fun with a DAW at home, I'm doing instrumentals only. Maybe it's only me, but I think to a story and make a sort of soundtrack. Unfortunately it can work only if who listens knows the story. Not a problem: usually I'm the only listener of my stuff
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, I'm not sure that a "concept" is a good idea ... I think that we can find a lot more within a complete improvisational piece, so that different folks can add something else, until it looks like ... wow ... we got something. With this "freedom" a lot more "ideas" come around, although I prefer that folks treat an improvisation just like it is explained and defined, not with ideas from your head. In other words, don't listen to it first and go right into it as it starts so you get a clean feel from it ... and avoid touching it up as mistakes alone can add a lot more to many things than otherwise. The only concern here, is folks being completely afraid to improvise and think that they have to have something under it all before they can do anything ... which tells you how mental the whole thing of sharing and learning, has become. No concept and no ideas will likely get something done faster if people are willing to just try something they have not done before ... but very few musicians are strong enough to consider that option at all as far as I can see by the "ideas" thrown around.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Frets N Worries
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4201 |
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Not a terrible idea
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, We live in a time of "independence" and everyone has a better idea of how to do things on their own ... it's a wonder that rock bands come around, but most of them will die off tomorrow, so to speak, because of it. I think that the idea was right, but it was clear right from the start how limited it was going to be, and one person simply wanting just this or that kinda gave it away, and when a "non-musician" makes a suggestion, the best some of those folks can do is ... take a hike. A perfect example and word for the whole thing!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13885 |
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I think the idea of this project can be considered dead. What if we choose a concept (a book, a story, whatever...) and each of us makes a track, like the Kalevala projects to say a thing? |
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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Valdez
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 580 |
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Thanks Megistus for this special mix, Your Guitar in it, and the cool sound effects. I know I still owe you and will get right on it soon. In the meantime here is that weird song we worked on. if there is a photo you would like on the bandcamp page for this song just email it to me. I just stuck a pic of my jackson on there for now.
Edited by Valdez - June 14 2024 at 12:32 |
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https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, Out of curiosity ... why a vocalist? You might find someone that reads poetry really well, and adds so much to the words, that makes it special. A "vocalist" only does the notes, and you hope they can pick things up and come together and believe the words, enough to convince us about it all ... that's asking a lot, specially if the person is an outsider, and in the situation here, lives in a different country ... well, it worked with Rachel Flowers doing Focus and other bands, but I think that is rare, and it was also very well rehearsed. An example ... is someone trying to make it look like Jim M or Robert P. It's impossible, since how Jim worked was almost 100% poetry and the "acting" behind it is amazingly good ... you can tell they were film enthusiasts ... because almost all of their work is just like a film ... you can't miss it. Robert P., specially in his early days, was very much a fantasy for a lot of women, and he made it look like he would really participate with a lot of passion ... and you can not exactly duplicate that, because the "feel" is PERSONAL, and not canned, or acted out. There are some interesting examples, with various folks reading their material and sometimes adding to it ... Burroughs in Laurie Anderson is quite a treat, and if you read enough of his work, it is not exactly "different" from the way he writes. It has a very different and interesting flow. And later, most of it was taped, which was not as good as the originals. Another good example, is how NEKTAR has not been able to bring out the late Roye Albrighton singing ... because it wasn't singing ... it was who he was and lived, and it was super personal in his experience. And at that point, it makes the effort to keep the band alive, interesting, but when hearing some of the things ... it's very sad ... the beauty of Roye's emotions and feeling is not there, and you could tell the words were about his heart. And then there are the odd ones ... Amon Duul 2, uses anyone/everyone to say something and/or sing. The biggest constant was Chris Karrer, and his special delivery was completely "anti-lyrics" and it allowed for his attitude, that often comes out as cynicism, but it isn't ... it's a commentary. But when you hear things like Apocaliptyc Bore, you wonder where the vision comes from because the way the song is presented is way beyond anything, and staying with him did not seem to be a problem all the way to the ending duet with guitar and violin. Likewise, Renate is a problem that many don't like ... she comes off as vindictive and vicious, and then in another piece is smooth and soft and sad. And you can see a bit of the feminism in her words ... I think that she had to fight the band for being able to sing a bit more, but there are times when she does, and it is so strong, that it is impossible to not believe it ... but the hard part here? NONE of these things are "conventional" in any shape or form, and that was what AD2 was all about ... but the words that one time appeared to be "psychedelic" all of a sudden are very real, and stand up ... because the band makes the words come alive ... it's not about "singing" ... it's about the expression. The scary side for me, is how folks are so scared of using something different ... and are so tied up to a commercial standard for what music is, or a song should be. Give me some lyrics, and I will give you some ideas of how they can be interpreted, which would help the music identify the whole thing better, instead of it being second rate lyrics on top of a song, that has nothing to do with the lyrics, except for one person's idea. Trying to add a reality to that is not a good idea ... it usually falls flat. A small note ... about acting. Peter Brook wrote many books on directing and working with actors. He toured King Lear for like 300+ performances, and during that one repetitive part in a soliloquy ... he says that Keith Michell never said it the same way over the course of the performances ... and that suggests that Keith was really good at being attuned to the MOMENT, and it wasn't about the words/lyrics ... it was about the feeling coming alive ... I simply do not think that anyone creating lyrics for a song ... can even imagine that insanity! Heck, might even try to get a 10 year old to do the words, or try to sing it ... it maybe magic in the end! Sorry ... not trying to hijack the thread.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Frets N Worries
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4201 |
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^Ditto
We still need a vocalist I think
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13885 |
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...reply TTL=64 I'm quite busy with my real job, at this moment, but sin case the project goes ahead, I'm sure I can find some spare time
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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Frets N Worries
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4201 |
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Ping...
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13885 |
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Ping...
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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Megistus
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2023 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 111 |
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ditto for me!! Not dead, just... 'coasting' :)
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Frets N Worries
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4201 |
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I hope not, I've been crazy busy recently. Life happens, I keep meaning to add stuff to at least one of the songs
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13885 |
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Hi all, is this project dying?
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13885 |
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Ok Bandcamp, but which page?
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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Valdez1
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2024 Location: Walla Walla Wa Status: Offline Points: 351 |
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Hey Megistus. Thanks for the help on my stuff. sounds great. I tried to sing on one and it may or may not have worked out. vocals are hard to mix. It's at bandcamp called 'The Waves'. have a laugh!
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Frets N Worries
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4201 |
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Sure, I can PM you the link to the first song, we're working over on Bandlab
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
||
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