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20 of your great UK Prog Rock classics?

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cstack3 View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 08 2023 at 23:49
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Our Brit friends really ruled the roost in those years!!  LOL

Meanwhile, the USA was cranking out quality music by, oh....Grand Funk Railroad?  

always amuses me that the great Cal Jam festival of 1974 was headlined by ELP, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. USA put forward erm Black Oak Arkansas. Who the where what lol?!

Don't remind me!!  Interestingly, guitarist Shawn Lane started out in Black Oak Arkansas, and he evolved into a real jazz-rock blazer!   RIP Shawn (he had psoriatic arthritis and other disabilities). 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 20:54
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Our Brit friends really ruled the roost in those years!!  LOL

Meanwhile, the USA was cranking out quality music by, oh....Grand Funk Railroad?  

always amuses me that the great Cal Jam festival of 1974 was headlined by ELP, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. USA put forward erm Black Oak Arkansas. Who the where what lol?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 13:59
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Our Brit friends really ruled the roost in those years!!  LOL

Meanwhile, the USA was cranking out quality music by, oh....Grand Funk Railroad?  


Hey, Hotel California came out that year! That's an AMAZING record, and that's sacrilege as a prog-head but I will die with that opinion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 13:09
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Our Brit friends really ruled the roost in those years!!  LOL

Meanwhile, the USA was cranking out quality music by, oh....Grand Funk Railroad?  

And a lot of very fine Jazz-Rock/Fusion. Tongue

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 11:50
Our Brit friends really ruled the roost in those years!!  LOL

Meanwhile, the USA was cranking out quality music by, oh....Grand Funk Railroad?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 09:45
ELP - Brain Salad Surgery

Genesis - Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

King Crimson - In The Court of the Crimson King, Red

Pink Floyd - Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here

Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed

Jethro Tull - Thick as a Brick, A Passion Play

Van der graaf generator- Pawn Hearts, Godbluff, Still Life

Yes - Fragile, Close to the Edge, Tales from Topographic Oceans, Relayer, Going for the One

The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahmet0092 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 09:32
Camel - 1974 Mirage

Caravan - 1971 - In The Land Of Grey And Pink

Emerson, Lake & Palmer - 1971 - Tarkus

Genesis - 1973  Selling England By The Pound

King Crimson - 1969 In the Court of the Crimson King

Marillion - 1985 - Misplaced Childhood
Marillion - 2004 - Marbles 

Pink Floyd - 1971 - Meddle
Pink Floyd - 1973 - The Dark Side Of The Moon
Pink Floyd - 1975 - Wish You Were Here
Pink Floyd - 1977 - Animals

Porcupine Tree - 2007 - Fear Of A Blank Planet

The Moody Blues - 1967 - Days Of Future Passed

Jethro Tull - 1972 Thick As A Brick 

Van der Graaf Generator - 1970 - The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other 
Van der Graaf Generator - 1970 - H To He, Who Am The Only One 

Yes - 1971 - Fragile
Yes - 1972 - Close To The Edge
Yes - 1974 - Relayer
Yes - 1977 - Going For The One


If the list was longer;

Camel - 1973 Camel

Genesis - 1974 - Crime Of The Century
Genesis - 1971  Nursery Cryme
Genesis - 1972  Foxtrot

Emerson, Lake & Palmer - 1973 - Brain Salad Surgery

Pink Floyd - 1994 - The Division Bell

Steven Wilson - 2015 - Hand. Cannot. Erase

Supertramp - 1970 - Supertramp
Supertramp - 1974 - Crime Of The Century

IQ - Subterranea

Yes - 1973 - Tales From Topographic Oceans

And there would be several albums from groups like Nektar, Hawkwind, Kansas, Pendragon.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2023 at 11:08
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

^^ god I second that. Glad to see some recognize Pallas’s Dreams of Men album. That is a masterpiece in my opinion. It really is amazing and for those of who have the 2CD deluxe edition you did well. Highly worth it.


yep I think it may even have been you that put me onto this gem.Thumbs Up


Oh right! We did have a conversation about this a few years ago. Good memory for sure. What a solid community we got here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2023 at 10:14
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

^^ god I second that. Glad to see some recognize Pallas’s Dreams of Men album. That is a masterpiece in my opinion. It really is amazing and for those of who have the 2CD deluxe edition you did well. Highly worth it.

yep I think it may even have been you that put me onto this gem.Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2023 at 09:23
^^ god I second that. Glad to see some recognize Pallas’s Dreams of Men album. That is a masterpiece in my opinion. It really is amazing and for those of who have the 2CD deluxe edition you did well. Highly worth it.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2023 at 21:07
Originally posted by Magog2112 Magog2112 wrote:

In no particular order:

1. Arena - The Visitor
2. Galahad - Following Ghosts
3. Genesis - Foxtrot
4. King Crimson - In The Court of the Crimson King
5. Marillion - Brave
6. Pendragon - Not of This World
7. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
8. Yes - Going for the One
9. Van Der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts
10. Gentle Giant - Octopus
11. Pallas - The Dreams of Men
12. IQ - Dark Matter
13. Jethro Tull - A Passion Play
14. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery
15. Electric Light Orchestra - Eldorado
16. Arena - Contagion
17. Galahad - Empires Never Last
18. Genesis - Selling England By the Pound
19. Marillion - Marbles
20. Pendragon - Love Over Fear

I like this list very much although you may have the Genesis mafia on your case for putting SEBTP so low Wink

picking GFTO over other Yes albums is also quite 'ballsy'. It can be easily forgotten that was Yes most succesful album back in the day spawning 2 radio hits (Wonderous Stories and title track) as well as the popular epic Awaken and the stunning guitar of Howe on Turn Of The Century that was widely praised. For some Parallels is a down note but that is my favourite track on the album with a killer bass rif from Squire and Wakey's pipe organ antics. Never quite warmed to it as much as their others though from that period although I have a version on vinyl that I play occasionally and it sounds fine.


Edited by richardh - July 29 2023 at 21:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magog2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2023 at 08:20
In no particular order:

1. Arena - The Visitor
2. Galahad - Following Ghosts
3. Genesis - Foxtrot
4. King Crimson - In The Court of the Crimson King
5. Marillion - Brave
6. Pendragon - Not of This World
7. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
8. Yes - Going for the One
9. Van Der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts
10. Gentle Giant - Octopus
11. Pallas - The Dreams of Men
12. IQ - Dark Matter
13. Jethro Tull - A Passion Play
14. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery
15. Electric Light Orchestra - Eldorado
16. Arena - Contagion
17. Galahad - Empires Never Last
18. Genesis - Selling England By the Pound
19. Marillion - Marbles
20. Pendragon - Love Over Fear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Philchem8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2022 at 14:12
Thanks for both of your latest replies to my comments David_D.. You raise some interesting ideas with respect to the question, "What I mean is that those albums are the highest rated but what does that exactly tell 
about the raters' view of them?". I don't have time to respond in detail right now, but I will try to share some thoughts tomorrow - and as you suggest, I will do it under your 'top 160 list' discussion instead of this thread.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2022 at 12:00

But how about an apology, ExittheLemming? I might think more positive about you in the future.

Or tell me at least more exactly what was bothering you.






Edited by David_D - February 22 2022 at 15:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2022 at 15:45
Originally posted by Philchem8 Philchem8 wrote:

In principle, I agree with with you, a "great classic" should be highly rated by as many people as possible, not only professional music critics, and this appreciation must stand the test of time (whether it's 20, 30 or 50 years I don't know). The problem in practice is who speaks for the people? You have mentioned RYM and I do find that's a pretty good indicator because albums there tend to have a higher number of ratings than on other music web sites that I am aware of. However, it's still an infinitely small number of people who are actually rating these albums. 

As the first, I'd say that one has to look only at one genre at a time, say Progressive Rock, and only consider this genre and not begin to mix it with artists from other genres. Then, one can think about how representative the given rating (maybe on RYM + PA) is for all the listeners of this genre.

Next, it's of course good to consider alternative sources for possible determination of great classics. It could be top-selling albums. 
My own approach is what I for some reasons have found as the best of those which were accessible for me. 

I guess that it would be best to discuss this matter further on basis of something quite precise, for instance my top 160 list.


Edited by David_D - February 21 2022 at 16:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2022 at 15:06
Originally posted by Philchem8 Philchem8 wrote:

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what you are saying in the sentence above Ermm - maybe you could clarify?

What I mean is that those albums are the highest rated but what does that exactly tell 
about the raters' view of them? 
Those albums are most liked?
They are most appreciated?
They are considered to be the best ones?
They have got the highest status?
They are maybe just those albums which were highest rated in the beginning, 
and the following raters just followed this high rating?
Or what can be told about them in general? 


Edited by David_D - February 22 2022 at 15:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Philchem8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2022 at 14:27
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Philchem8 Philchem8 wrote:

Yes, I have checked out that list a couple of times. It's a good list, useful when I'm looking for some new stuff to listen to. Although, since you only include one album per band, it excludes many classic albums.

I find interesting the question what albums on that list can be said to represent, or be an expression of in relation to the raters. 
If you do that as well, I'd be happy to discuss it in the other thread ( Top 100 alltime! - based on ratings on RYM and PA ).

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what you are saying in the sentence above Ermm - maybe you could clarify?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Philchem8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2022 at 14:24
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

My own is somehow an opposite, "from the bottom", approach and as I write in my OP "by "great classics" I mean albums that are very high rated by really many people". That concerns of course only the "great" part of it, and as I view it, it's a kind of objective criteria as it's based on really many people's opinion. Further, it says that "a great" must be very highly appreciated, and to add the last part of it, to become "a classic" must be deserved by (really) many years appreciation, which I personally think of as at least 30-40 years.

In principle, I agree with with you, a "great classic" should be highly rated by as many people as possible, not only professional music critics, and this appreciation must stand the test of time (whether it's 20, 30 or 50 years I don't know). The problem in practice is who speaks for the people? You have mentioned RYM and I do find that's a pretty good indicator because albums there tend to have a higher number of ratings than on other music web sites that I am aware of. However, it's still an infinitely small number of people who are actually rating these albums. Dark Side of the Moon probably has the highest number of ratings among prog albums with 61,469 ratings, but that's a tiny fraction of the people who have listened to it. Can we take it as a sufficiently representative sample? it's hard to be definite because most people do not engage into rating albums, but they would still have an opinion if asked - and if these silent masses did rate albums, maybe top-selling albums like Whitney Houston's The Bodyguard, the Bee Gees' Saturday Night Fever and Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill would rate higher than many of the classic prog albums that currently have more and higher ratings on RYM. So in the end, at the risk of sounding elitist, I would say it's not just a very high rating by "really many people" that would determine a great classic, but a very high rating by many people who are relatively musically critical and discerning. In that sense, I do think that the average rating person on RYM is probably more critical and discerning than the average public, but there are certain limits. I suspect that there are many more male raters and cult band followers, which would create some bias in the ratings. I find it interesting, for instance, that an album like King Crimson's Red, which most people have never heard of, currently has over 24,000 ratings on RYM and an average rating of 4.22, while Jagged Little Pill, one of the best-selling albums of all times, winner of the Best Album of the Year and several Grammy awards, has just over 6,000 ratings and a rating of 3.47. Of course, personally I prefer King Crimson, but I do think Red's rating is, in part, a result of the fact that there are many more KC fans who rate albums on RYM than fans of Morrissette. Just to finish, I'm not saying I disagree with the approach, but pointing out that it has limitations, as I'm sure you're aware.                                  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2022 at 02:30
Originally posted by Philchem8 Philchem8 wrote:

Yes, I have checked out that list a couple of times. It's a good list, useful when I'm looking for some new stuff to listen to. Although, since you only include one album per band, it excludes many classic albums.

I find interesting the question what albums on that list can be said to represent, or be an expression of in relation to the raters. 
If you do that as well, I'd be happy to discuss it in the other thread ( Top 100 alltime! - based on ratings on RYM and PA ).

By the way, if you look at the highest rated albums of let's say the 50 highest placed bands/artists on that list, that might be most of the greatest Prog classics (maybe about 150-200 albums) - at least according to the Prog definition which I have used.


Edited by David_D - February 21 2022 at 04:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2022 at 15:36
Originally posted by Philchem8 Philchem8 wrote:

Not sure that I would start a discussion on defining what is a "great classic", but I'm certainly interested in how you (and others who are interested) perceive this and if you are aware of any other sources that would help to determine what is a great classic prog album.

At first, I'd like to excuse for the mess in this thread, Phil, but that is what can happen on PA, even I think there are some extraordinary circumstances in this case.

Anyway, about other sources first, I can only refer to Larkin Colin and his book All time Top 1000 Albums (1994) which is a very good example of a critic's approach to the question, but it concerns all the "main" genres except from Classical, and thus not specific Progressive Rock. In fact, it includes only very little of Prog albums.

My own is somehow an opposite, "from the bottom", approach and as I write in my OP "by "great classics" I mean albums that are very high rated by really many people". That concerns of course only the "great" part of it, and as I view it, it's a kind of objective criteria as it's based on really many people's opinion. Further, it says that "a great" must be very highly appreciated, and to add the last part of it, to become "a classic" must be deserved by (really) many years appreciation, which I personally think of as at least 30-40 years.


Edited by David_D - March 06 2022 at 08:36
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