20 of your great UK Prog Rock classics? |
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cstack3
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Posted: August 08 2023 at 23:49 |
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Don't remind me!! Interestingly, guitarist Shawn Lane started out in Black Oak Arkansas, and he evolved into a real jazz-rock blazer! RIP Shawn (he had psoriatic arthritis and other disabilities). |
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27993 |
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always amuses me that the great Cal Jam festival of 1974 was headlined by ELP, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. USA put forward erm Black Oak Arkansas. Who the where what lol?!
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Frets N Worries
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Hey, Hotel California came out that year! That's an AMAZING record, and that's sacrilege as a prog-head but I will die with that opinion |
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David_D
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And a lot of very fine Jazz-Rock/Fusion. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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cstack3
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Our Brit friends really ruled the roost in those years!!
Meanwhile, the USA was cranking out quality music by, oh....Grand Funk Railroad?
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Frets N Worries
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ELP - Brain Salad Surgery
Genesis - Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway King Crimson - In The Court of the Crimson King, Red Pink Floyd - Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed Jethro Tull - Thick as a Brick, A Passion Play Van der graaf generator- Pawn Hearts, Godbluff, Still Life Yes - Fragile, Close to the Edge, Tales from Topographic Oceans, Relayer, Going for the One |
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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Ahmet0092
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Camel - 1974 Mirage Caravan - 1971 - In The Land Of Grey And Pink Emerson, Lake & Palmer - 1971 - Tarkus Genesis - 1973 Selling England By The Pound King Crimson - 1969 In the Court of the Crimson King Marillion - 1985 - Misplaced Childhood Marillion - 2004 - Marbles Pink Floyd - 1971 - Meddle Pink Floyd - 1973 - The Dark Side Of The Moon Pink Floyd - 1975 - Wish You Were Here Pink Floyd - 1977 - Animals Porcupine Tree - 2007 - Fear Of A Blank Planet The Moody Blues - 1967 - Days Of Future Passed Jethro Tull - 1972 Thick As A Brick Van der Graaf Generator - 1970 - The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other Van der Graaf Generator - 1970 - H To He, Who Am The Only One Yes - 1971 - Fragile Yes - 1972 - Close To The Edge Yes - 1974 - Relayer Yes - 1977 - Going For The One If the list was longer; Camel - 1973 Camel Genesis - 1974 - Crime Of The Century Genesis - 1971 Nursery Cryme Genesis - 1972 Foxtrot Emerson, Lake & Palmer - 1973 - Brain Salad Surgery Pink Floyd - 1994 - The Division Bell Steven Wilson - 2015 - Hand. Cannot. Erase Supertramp - 1970 - Supertramp Supertramp - 1974 - Crime Of The Century IQ - Subterranea Yes - 1973 - Tales From Topographic Oceans And there would be several albums from groups like Nektar, Hawkwind, Kansas, Pendragon. |
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7849 |
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Oh right! We did have a conversation about this a few years ago. Good memory for sure. What a solid community we got here. This is my 10th year being on P.A Glad to still kick around here, especially with you, Richard. |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27993 |
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yep I think it may even have been you that put me onto this gem.
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progbethyname
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^^ god I second that. Glad to see some recognize Pallas’s Dreams of Men album. That is a masterpiece in my opinion. It really is amazing and for those of who have the 2CD deluxe edition you did well. Highly worth it.
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27993 |
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I like this list very much although you may have the Genesis mafia on your case for putting SEBTP so low picking GFTO over other Yes albums is also quite 'ballsy'. It can be easily forgotten that was Yes most succesful album back in the day spawning 2 radio hits (Wonderous Stories and title track) as well as the popular epic Awaken and the stunning guitar of Howe on Turn Of The Century that was widely praised. For some Parallels is a down note but that is my favourite track on the album with a killer bass rif from Squire and Wakey's pipe organ antics. Never quite warmed to it as much as their others though from that period although I have a version on vinyl that I play occasionally and it sounds fine.
Edited by richardh - July 29 2023 at 21:09 |
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Magog2112
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In no particular order:
1. Arena - The Visitor 2. Galahad - Following Ghosts 3. Genesis - Foxtrot 4. King Crimson - In The Court of the Crimson King 5. Marillion - Brave 6. Pendragon - Not of This World 7. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here 8. Yes - Going for the One 9. Van Der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts 10. Gentle Giant - Octopus 11. Pallas - The Dreams of Men 12. IQ - Dark Matter 13. Jethro Tull - A Passion Play 14. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery 15. Electric Light Orchestra - Eldorado 16. Arena - Contagion 17. Galahad - Empires Never Last 18. Genesis - Selling England By the Pound 19. Marillion - Marbles 20. Pendragon - Love Over Fear
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Philchem8
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Thanks for both of your latest replies to my comments David_D.. You raise some interesting ideas with respect to the question, "What I mean is that those albums are the highest rated but what does that exactly tell
about the raters' view of them?". I don't have time to respond in detail right now, but I will try to share some thoughts tomorrow - and as you suggest, I will do it under your 'top 160 list' discussion instead of this thread.
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David_D
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But how about an apology, ExittheLemming? I might think more positive about you in the future. Or tell me at least more exactly what was bothering you. Edited by David_D - February 22 2022 at 15:13 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
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As the first, I'd say that one has to look only at one genre at a time, say Progressive Rock, and only consider this genre and not begin to mix it with artists from other genres. Then, one can think about how representative the given rating (maybe on RYM + PA) is for all the listeners of this genre. Next, it's of course good to consider alternative sources for possible determination of great classics. It could be top-selling albums. My own approach is what I for some reasons have found as the best of those which were accessible for me. I guess that it would be best to discuss this matter further on basis of something quite precise, for instance my top 160 list.
Edited by David_D - February 21 2022 at 16:45 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15111 |
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What I mean is that those albums are the highest rated but what does that exactly tell about the raters' view of them? Those albums are most liked? They are most appreciated? They are considered to be the best ones? They have got the highest status? They are maybe just those albums which were highest rated in the beginning, and the following raters just followed this high rating? Or what can be told about them in general?
Edited by David_D - February 22 2022 at 15:17 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Philchem8
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To be honest, I'm not quite sure what you are saying in the sentence above - maybe you could clarify? |
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Philchem8
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In principle, I agree with with you, a "great classic" should be highly rated by as many people as possible, not only professional music critics, and this appreciation must stand the test of time (whether it's 20, 30 or 50 years I don't know). The problem in practice is who speaks for the people? You have mentioned RYM and I do find that's a pretty good indicator because albums there tend to have a higher number of ratings than on other music web sites that I am aware of. However, it's still an infinitely small number of people who are actually rating these albums. Dark Side of the Moon probably has the highest number of ratings among prog albums with 61,469 ratings, but that's a tiny fraction of the people who have listened to it. Can we take it as a sufficiently representative sample? it's hard to be definite because most people do not engage into rating albums, but they would still have an opinion if asked - and if these silent masses did rate albums, maybe top-selling albums like Whitney Houston's The Bodyguard, the Bee Gees' Saturday Night Fever and Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill would rate higher than many of the classic prog albums that currently have more and higher ratings on RYM. So in the end, at the risk of sounding elitist, I would say it's not just a very high rating by "really many people" that would determine a great classic, but a very high rating by many people who are relatively musically critical and discerning. In that sense, I do think that the average rating person on RYM is probably more critical and discerning than the average public, but there are certain limits. I suspect that there are many more male raters and cult band followers, which would create some bias in the ratings. I find it interesting, for instance, that an album like King Crimson's Red, which most people have never heard of, currently has over 24,000 ratings on RYM and an average rating of 4.22, while Jagged Little Pill, one of the best-selling albums of all times, winner of the Best Album of the Year and several Grammy awards, has just over 6,000 ratings and a rating of 3.47. Of course, personally I prefer King Crimson, but I do think Red's rating is, in part, a result of the fact that there are many more KC fans who rate albums on RYM than fans of Morrissette. Just to finish, I'm not saying I disagree with the approach, but pointing out that it has limitations, as I'm sure you're aware.
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David_D
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I find interesting the question what albums on that list can be said to represent, or be an expression of in relation to the raters. If you do that as well, I'd be happy to discuss it in the other thread ( Top 100 alltime! - based on ratings on RYM and PA ). By the way, if you look at the highest rated albums of let's say the 50 highest placed bands/artists on that list, that might be most of the greatest Prog classics (maybe about 150-200 albums) - at least according to the Prog definition which I have used.
Edited by David_D - February 21 2022 at 04:12 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
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At first, I'd like to excuse for the mess in this thread, Phil, but that is what can happen on PA, even I think there are some extraordinary circumstances in this case. Anyway, about other sources first, I can only refer to Larkin Colin and his book All time Top 1000 Albums (1994) which is a very good example of a critic's approach to the question, but it concerns all the "main" genres except from Classical, and thus not specific Progressive Rock. In fact, it includes only very little of Prog albums. My own is somehow an opposite, "from the bottom", approach and as I write in my OP "by "great classics" I mean albums that are very high rated by really many people". That concerns of course only the "great" part of it, and as I view it, it's a kind of objective criteria as it's based on really many people's opinion. Further, it says that "a great" must be very highly appreciated, and to add the last part of it, to become "a classic" must be deserved by (really) many years appreciation, which I personally think of as at least 30-40 years.
Edited by David_D - March 06 2022 at 08:36 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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