Which song is more kick A**

We've got a good one here. Nip and Tuck at two votes each.

YESESIS wrote: Logan wrote: I think everything happens for a reason (causal chains). It's one of those I'm not saying it will or should happen, and I can't be certain that it is possible, but I don't know, understand or align myself with the arguments against it. It might not even be electronic type hardware (or some such thing), it might be organic wetware that is created, perhaps based on the design of our brains. We might not invent or create the consciousness but perhaps the consciousness will arise from one of our inventions/ creations. I am someone who think that consciousness is a product of our brains (the neurons firing and electro-chemical processes) unlike some wo think that there is something of it outside the physical/ chemical/ biological/ mechanical... working our our brains. Like a soul, something more that also gives people free will in some people's minds -- the libertarian conception. Perhaps I misunderstood the original posts questions or more like the parameters to answer it, especially since "other" most kick-ass was an option. Had it been "Which of these songs do you find more kick-ass?" then I would have given the Franz Ferdinand. Often it comes down to how we interpret the particular phrasing and framing of a question. Had I not been rushing and on my phone and had time to properly listen to both tracks then, then I would have responded in a fuller way while mentioning an other. I do prefer it myself when someone tries to say something about the choices that are given. Yeah I messed that up in the OP, that's on me. Really there's two questions at this point.. which of those two is more kiss ass, and what is the most kick ass song ever(but if it's not one of those two then you're wrong). :p Ok silliness aside, about consciousness.. I see it as being able to think about your own existence, worry about your own death, wonder if you've ever existed before, etc. Can robots do these things? Not by a long shot. I guess in the future they could be programmed to put forth these things, but they wouldn't be doing it themselves.. they'll never truly be alive.

There is where we seem to have fundamental epistemological differences. I am ultimately agnostic (without certainty) when it comes to all things, including what I just said. ;) I am a determinist, so I don't believe in truly free will and I think that hereditary (internal programming) and environmental factors ultimately "force" our actions, and determine our thinking. I have no good reason to think that AI won't ever achieve consciousness (depending on how one defines it -- there are debates around how to define consciousness). That they will never truly be alive, well that would depend on the definition of life. I know what you mean, but that you would be convinced that this won't be shows a fundamental philosophical difference between us. I would need to be convinced that it is not possible to accept that, and I wouldn't know how the best intellects who are very knowledgeable about such things would be able to convince me (assuming it would be falsifiable now).

Edited by Logan - October 24 2021 at 10:59

YESESIS wrote: Logan wrote: YESESIS wrote: Logan wrote: Okay, they are indeed both kick-ass. :D I'm being a bit difficult, sorry. And by the way, I do consider Take Me Out by Franz Ferdinand to be the more kick-ass one. No reason you should remember the banana. It related to a deep conversation we had about the teleological argument (argument from design -- watchmaker analogy type things -- it's a discussion that really stuck with me but then I don't always get to stretch my brain muscles here). I remember that discussion for sure. And certainly I remember the watchmaker analogy, I just don't remember the banana part. But here's something else for you to think about... could man ever invent/create consciousness? I don't know, but I suspect "yes". Funnily, I had the same discussion with my son a few weeks ago. Things happen for a reason friend. Anyway, I don't believe man will ever create something that is actually conscious(might seem like it is but wouldn't really be). Thank you for answering the original thread question btw in your previous post.

I think everything happens for a reason (causal chains). It's one of those I'm not saying it will or should happen, and I can't be certain that it is possible, but I don't know, understand or align myself with the arguments against it. It might not even be electronic type hardware (or some such thing), it might be organic wetware that is created, perhaps based on the design of our brains. We might not invent or create the consciousness but perhaps the consciousness will arise from one of our inventions/ creations.

I am someone who think that consciousness is a product of our brains (the neurons firing and electro-chemical processes) unlike some wo think that there is something of it outside the physical/ chemical/ biological/ mechanical... working our our brains. Like a soul, something more that also gives people free will in some people's minds -- the libertarian conception.

Perhaps I misunderstood the original posts questions or more like the parameters to answer it, especially since "other" most kick-ass was an option. Had it been "Which of these songs do you find more kick-ass?" then I would have given the Franz Ferdinand. Often it comes down to how we interpret the particular phrasing and framing of a question.

Had I not been rushing and on my phone and had time to properly listen to both tracks then, then I would have responded in a fuller way while mentioning an other. I do prefer it myself when someone tries to say something about the choices that are given.

Edited by Logan - October 24 2021 at 10:09

YESESIS wrote: Logan wrote: Okay, they are indeed both kick-ass. :D I'm being a bit difficult, sorry. And by the way, I do consider Take Me Out by Franz Ferdinand to be the more kick-ass one. No reason you should remember the banana. It related to a deep conversation we had about the teleological argument (argument from design -- watchmaker analogy type things -- it's a discussion that really stuck with me but then I don't always get to stretch my brain muscles here). I remember that discussion for sure. And certainly I remember the watchmaker analogy, I just don't remember the banana part. But here's something else for you to think about... could man ever invent/create consciousness?

I don't know, but I suspect "yes". Or that man would create the conditions which would lead to consciousness arising. Difficult one especially when considering the "hard problem of consciousness". Funnily, I had the same discussion with my son not long ago.

Edited by Logan - October 24 2021 at 09:37

YESESIS wrote: Logan wrote: YESESIS wrote: I shouldn't have put "Other" lol. It's really between the two songs in the OP for most kick ass song ever.. but some 'other' good selections here none the less, especially the Tea Party one, and of course Thin Lizzy(from a fantastic album also). Sorry, was on my phone so couldn't easily present a compelling post in answer to the question, "So... which is the most kick ass song ever?!!" Of course I don't know what is the most bottom punting song in the history of the world, but for me it wouldn't be either of those. I thought you might get a "kick" out of me posting a Melt-Banana song due to our past conversation about Ray Comfort's banana (with Kirk Cameron), but I have no good reason to think that you would make the association. Our tastes are quite different and our epistemologies are farther apart. Oh come on.. those are the two most kick ass songs ever and if you're honest with yourself then you know it lol. Ok, anyway no I didn't make that connection sorry. I thought the song was kick ass though weird(which doesn't detract from it's kick assness).

Okay, they are indeed both kick-ass. :D I'm being a bit difficult, sorry. And by the way, I do consider Take Me Out by Franz Ferdinand to be the more kick-ass one.

No reason you should have thought of the Comfort banana. It related to a deep conversation we had about the teleological argument (argument from design -- watchmaker analogy type things -- it's a discussion that really stuck with me but then I don't always get to stretch my brain muscles here).

Edited by Logan - October 24 2021 at 09:17

YESESIS wrote: I shouldn't have put "Other" lol. It's really between the two songs in the OP for most kick ass song ever.. but some 'other' good selections here none the less, especially the Tea Party one, and of course Thin Lizzy(from a fantastic album also).

Sorry, was on my phone so couldn't easily present a compelling post in answer to the question, "So... which is the most kick ass song ever?!!"

Of course I don't know what is the most bottom punting song in the history of the world, but for me it wouldn't be either of those.

I thought you might get a "kick" out of me posting a Melt-Banana song due to our past conversation about Ray Comfort's banana (with Kirk Cameron), but I have no good reason to think that you would make the association.

Our tastes are quite different and our epistemologies are farther apart.

I shouldn't have put "Other" lol. It's really between the two songs in the OP for most kick ass song ever.. but some 'other' good selections here none the less, especially the Tea Party one, and of course Thin Lizzy(from a fantastic album also).

I have always been weak towards Goo Goo Dolls- "Iris"

But i also like those two songs in the poll, great tunes with exellent peoduction

YESESIS wrote: Smells Like Teen Spirit was the most kiss ass song of the 90's, until The Smashing Pumpkins forcefully took it from them with Bullet with f**kin Butterfly Wings son. Then if you remember when Take Me Out first hit.. it was all you heard everywhere for awhile. Still has one of the coolest openings to any song imo.

It terms of popularity Smells Like Teen Spirit has 1 364 357 360 plays on youtube while Bullet With Butterfly Wings got 62 282 133. The opening of Take Me Out  (45 582 528 plays) sounds excactly like a Strokes-track from the latter bands debut album Is This It, so it's a good thing the song changes radically.

JD wrote: This one...