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Topic: The Musical Moron - rise of the Non Musician Posted: March 11 2019 at 09:44
It's not like this thread started of in any good place to lead to so everyone blow some steam somewhere else, I can quite certainly believe no one is gonna change his opinion because of the discussion led here.
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 50919
Posted: March 11 2019 at 07:45
I have tip-toed across the jack of glove compartment strikes only to find that online tools are donated tools. It's a sensible pencil that a brain can cloud upon like the dinosaurs of the 1960s. We can trek rope like a Shatner combining gossip with royal instinct. I'm quite happy with not emanating the curriculum you foresee, nor am I trying to invade your nest with glue guns. Quibbling about signals is a sure sign that your notes are upside down, but what if our calendar packs are pinched?
I'm online for a reason. And that reason is for forks and frosty windshields. My ass can even orbit the lowest of concrete muck, much like the bladders of Pittsburgh. But then you invade me like you have all the frog fields. I only sense that you have a clothes hamper and it's half full of nasal drippings for unforeseen cautions. Tidy up your pants and we won't have to tell you about the dampening of whoops.
I exist in more than one database. It's like we're swamped with goldfish. Your paranoia is an unwanted romance and by the time you take a break, you're breathing in cheese crackers. So what type of rock farm are you? Do you do nothing else but promote eggs?
I'm seeing a soundtrack slope that slides off into a mouth of expressways. We could all have been painting them. If you can agree to a new lifestyle of casual ass and thick fever cereal, I think most of us can get behind a box of pears. It's interesting that your messy crown lives in the sundry rots of almandine. Correspondingly, the pork is like an ork but lacks the ideological stiffness of overhead mutters defined for the benefit of all the choral attacks. Please purchase a pump only if you can acquire alopecoid curtains. So, your galaxy seems to me to be a bit like a "hotel hailed as a directive node that includes a directive node."
Gazing at soup, I have to wonder how you'll fill out your 2021 census forms. Are you a medieval lecturer or do you spend all day downloading pictures of bird poop? I can try doing this and no matter how tight my pants are, they keep sliding into my socks. This century you are the epitome of an unaware grandfather of the textbook diaper-changing of meatloaf carburetors. I will lean my rubbers into a highway of logs and you have the nerve to call me a kettle of subroutines that can't tell the difference between a verb and an owl turd!!!
From now, you can wait in a line for ham like the rest of us.
---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Posted: March 10 2019 at 18:13
Davesax1965 wrote:
Are you two married ?
Roommate means roommate. Married = spouse. Doctor means MD. Acupunture is a secondary degree. He is completely anti-vaxx. I'm not here to educate you on this matter, just wanted to chime in and let you know if you are calling those who espouse such stances morons then you're completely off base.
Acupuncture is cobblers as well. As for anti vax, read up any number of stats on the internet (including a survey of 675,000 vaccinations published a few days ago which found no statistical evidence for vaccine damage) - except - read them from reputable sources.
Sorry, practice what you preach. You have no clue about any of this and how much disinfo there exists. Better to not comment on things that are beyond your field of expertise.
NASA has been cloud seeding for years. That's not what "chemtrail" conspiracy theory is all about.
Actually chemtrailing totally encompasses what NASA has been involved in although you are correct that it is bigger than that. If you do not understand the implications of even what is public record then i'm afraid you're not up on this subject very well. Between the whistleblowers who have shed more light on "official" stories as well as samplings of biological systems impacted, the evidence is fairly convincing.
And a degree in biology - what specifically, can I ask ? Marine biology ? Plant biology ?
Ecology and environmental studies but also studied linguistics, anthropology, philosophy, psychology and many other disciplines on my own. I'm the ultimate nerd.
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
Posted: March 10 2019 at 11:17
Are you two married ?
Acupuncture is cobblers as well. As for anti vax, read up any number of stats on the internet (including a survey of 675,000 vaccinations published a few days ago which found no statistical evidence for vaccine damage) - except - read them from reputable sources.
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Posted: March 10 2019 at 08:24
Davesax1965 wrote:
This is why we get a mass of conspiracy theorists, chem trailers, anti-vaxxers and flat Earthers- they can all stupid together and there's strength in numbers (but still no value in their idiotic arguments.)
Just because you've played music for decades makes you an expert on everything? NASA has admitted on its own website that it has been dowsing the atmosphere with aluminum dioxide and lithium for decades. FYI, those are chemtrails. Count me in as one of the anti-vaxxers. I've delved into this subject intensely since i have a degree in biology and my roommate is a medical doctor who is also an acupuncturist. You're flippant comments display a clear lack of depth in which you pursue your knowledge. Stick to music.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17487
Posted: March 10 2019 at 07:12
Davesax1965 wrote:
,,,
In the interim, we've got a prime example on this thread of someone with no knowledge of how to play an instrument telling someone who patently has that they don't know what they're on about. ...
That is a gross mis-representation of what I have written about, or my supposed ... lack of knowledge ... a hospital director/manager is not a doctor ... so what?
Your comment is based, solely and strictly, on the premise that if you play an instrument, you know music, when in this thread that is what you are complaining about ... people that DO play an instrument (and I do!), but can not talk music with you, or communicate, because they don't know this or that. You, are limiting the communication to one aspect of music ... not all of them, and I find it sad and sick that you are not capable of accepting that.
Davesax1965 wrote:
,,,
... It's endemic on the internet - on every "music" forum you go on, there will be some idiot who decides that, since he's listened to a lot of music, he knows better than you do. Or can strum a few chords, hence "genius, look at me."
...
Also grossly incorrect. Again, you are assuming that I am saying that I know a lot about music ... no, in your terms I don't ... but in terms of having listened ... and I MEAN LISTENED INSTEAD OF NEEDLING IT, OR JUST SAMPLING IT ... yes I have, and I still have in my large collection over 40 different cultures, and the number of styles and different ideas and examples in music. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with my knowing or not knowing music ... it has more to do with my experience in appreciating and feeling something I love ... something that you keep totally stating that can only be done ... if you "know" music!
Sadly, all children are stupid and can not possibly come up with any music ... because your standards demand that you "change them" to what you want. Geeeee, why not call it a religion for gosh's sakes, and go ahead and proclaim some kind of fight against humanity ... because you know something and everyone else doesn't?
Rules are meant to be broken ... you want to become a serious artist? Learn to break the rules and the standards, and your music will be even better and stronger. But to constantly tell us that your knowing how to play an instrument is the most important part ... you're nutz dude ... in the early days of the synthesizer no one knew how to play it, and noises were made and eventually used. You couldn't take lessons on it! Just like Colombe got laughed at for his pieces of music many years ago, as have/did so many other composers for not following what everyone else did ... let's just say it for fun ... since it's such a great example ... it has ... huh ... it has ... huh ... too many notes!
And in your case too much talk and not enough concentration on playing with that person? Give a 5 year old an instrument ... and start playing with that kid ... you will likely learn a thing or two, if you do not decide that you have to teach the 5 year old the transcendent theory of great music ... as told by ...
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233
Posted: March 10 2019 at 04:39
Davesax1965 wrote:
Hi Grantman, exactly.
In the interim, we've got a prime example on this thread of someone with no knowledge of how to play an instrument telling someone who patently has that they don't know what they're on about.
It's endemic on the internet - on every "music" forum you go on, there will be some idiot who decides that, since he's listened to a lot of music, he knows better than you do. Or can strum a few chords, hence "genius, look at me."
I've now been playing a variety of musical instruments since 1976. Guess what ? I'm not a genius. I have a long way to go, nor do I know everything. But I know how much I do know, unlike a large number of "musicians" out there.
The problem used to be that - pre internet, people could be privately stupid and didn't tend to dare ganging up on people with knowledge. You rarely got the Wandering Nutcase who would decide that he somehow knew everything.
Now, Club Idiot has formed, large numbers of people can embrace the Stupidocracy and decide that their collective opinion is worth something.
Anyone with knowledge is perversely seen as "elitist". I don't know about you, but if I had to have a kidney removed, I'd rather have an "elite" surgeon do it than someone off the top deck of a bus.
This is why we get a mass of conspiracy theorists, chem trailers, anti-vaxxers and flat Earthers- they can all stupid together and there's strength in numbers (but still no value in their idiotic arguments.) So someone on a music forum can quite happily tell you how "easy bass is to play" and "only peole who can't play guitar play bass" with utterly no idea of what they're on about, having never picked one up.
They're just repeating idiotic mantras which they've heard and fit in with their (badly thought out) opinions. Heaven forfend that reality should not actually match their own view of themselves.
Man, you just might be my favorite poster here.
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65243
Posted: March 10 2019 at 04:28
I guess to me it's so obvious when someone is blowing smoke that I feel sorry for them, pat them on the head, and hope they don't further embarrass themselves. Most people instinctively know when someone is talking through their ass. Learned or not, they can tell.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
Posted: March 10 2019 at 04:10
Hi Grantman, exactly.
In the interim, we've got a prime example on this thread of someone with no knowledge of how to play an instrument telling someone who patently has that they don't know what they're on about.
It's endemic on the internet - on every "music" forum you go on, there will be some idiot who decides that, since he's listened to a lot of music, he knows better than you do. Or can strum a few chords, hence "genius, look at me."
I've now been playing a variety of musical instruments since 1976. Guess what ? I'm not a genius. I have a long way to go, nor do I know everything. But I know how much I do know, unlike a large number of "musicians" out there.
The problem used to be that - pre internet, people could be privately stupid and didn't tend to dare ganging up on people with knowledge. You rarely got the Wandering Nutcase who would decide that he somehow knew everything.
Now, Club Idiot has formed, large numbers of people can embrace the Stupidocracy and decide that their collective opinion is worth something.
Anyone with knowledge is perversely seen as "elitist". I don't know about you, but if I had to have a kidney removed, I'd rather have an "elite" surgeon do it than someone off the top deck of a bus.
This is why we get a mass of conspiracy theorists, chem trailers, anti-vaxxers and flat Earthers- they can all stupid together and there's strength in numbers (but still no value in their idiotic arguments.) So someone on a music forum can quite happily tell you how "easy bass is to play" and "only peole who can't play guitar play bass" with utterly no idea of what they're on about, having never picked one up.
They're just repeating idiotic mantras which they've heard and fit in with their (badly thought out) opinions. Heaven forfend that reality should not actually match their own view of themselves.
Joined: December 03 2015
Location: CANADA
Status: Offline
Points: 732
Posted: March 09 2019 at 10:53
I have been playing and learning guitar ,for over 10 years ,genius is a rare thing ,but even with a advanced skill ,one cannot have talent without commitment and experience.I do not profess to have talent but my skills have improved ,by having lessons and daily practice ,so the non-musician without knowledge or any kind of musical theory, cannot, really appreciate, the professional musician contributions.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17487
Posted: March 09 2019 at 07:21
Davesax1965 wrote:
mosh wrote:
...
The only part that bothers me about the comment is not Dave's real thought though ... I think he merely means at least folks that want to communicate musically, SHOULD/COULD have a reasonable knowledge of something or other ... in order to make this communication work ... however, even Dave forgets one of the most important things in music ... and you can find it in Robert Wyatt's book, when they were recording Syd Barrett ... and after an attempt to record some song, one of the guys turned to Robert and asked ... what key is he playing in? ... and Robert says ... he don't know the keys ... he just plays!
AND, if Robert is right, and I think he is considering his experience and expertise, I would imagine that Dave also needs to learn to listen to things, and not be so methodical about how he plays his OWN music ... and I think even other musicians, that are not as concerned with "keys" as they are with the flow of the material regardless ... and it's not like the 20th century was the one that took keys and threw them up in the air like Burroughs did with words ... it's not about "melody" necessarily is my thought altogether. I'm sure Dave will disagree with me on this.
Mosh, please refer back to the bit where I said that people who didn't know what they're talking about should kindly shut the f*ck up.
You're right. I disagreed with you on it.
You just hate it when an argument shows up that goes against your form. The bad side of your comment is that I only quoted some other folks ... it wasn't about me ... so your comment is really unfair and mostly an acknowledgement that your opinion is not complete, and not as well thought out as you thought you had it! AND ... above all, you are pretty much stating that Peter Michael Hamel, and Robert Wyatt, or even Syd Barrett, are idiots that do not know music. and would not have a valid comment on the subject. PMH does, and he is not nice about it, but you would never even consider reading that stuff ... too haughty and knowledgeable for your tastes!
AND ... btw, I didn't get personal about it. You did!
Edited by moshkito - March 09 2019 at 07:25
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
Posted: March 09 2019 at 02:30
moshkito wrote:
wiz_d_kidd wrote:
So what? Not everyone has the same skills, motivation, knowledge, practice, and time to become proficient, let alone master, an instrument -- or any subject for that matter. If jingle-jangling some chords and blabbing technical nonsense is his speed, let him! I'm sure he's happy.
Your post sounds awfully judgemental and snobby, calling someone a moron, idiot and imbecile just because they're not as good as you.
Peter Michael Hamel in his book ... FROM MUSIC TO THE SELF ... which is not a fun read for most of us, I do not think, since it is very academic and very much a book that puts down pop music and the aforementioned folks that do not know music.
There was a joke in it, though that I have always remembered.
There was an old man playing an instrument on top of the hill, and it had one string, and he kept plunking it ... and saying ... I GOT IT ... I GOT IT ... and everyone that came by would say ... WHAT's HE GOT?
The only part that bothers me about the comment is not Dave's real thought though ... I think he merely means at least folks that want to communicate musically, SHOULD/COULD have a reasonable knowledge of something or other ... in order to make this communication work ... however, even Dave forgets one of the most important things in music ... and you can find it in Robert Wyatt's book, when they were recording Syd Barrett ... and after an attempt to record some song, one of the guys turned to Robert and asked ... what key is he playing in? ... and Robert says ... he don't know the keys ... he just plays!
AND, if Robert is right, and I think he is considering his experience and expertise, I would imagine that Dave also needs to learn to listen to things, and not be so methodical about how he plays his OWN music ... and I think even other musicians, that are not as concerned with "keys" as they are with the flow of the material regardless ... and it's not like the 20th century was the one that took keys and threw them up in the air like Burroughs did with words ... it's not about "melody" necessarily is my thought altogether. I'm sure Dave will disagree with me on this.
Mosh, please refer back to the bit where I said that people who didn't know what they're talking about should kindly shut the f*ck up.
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The Musical Moron - rise of the Non Musician
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Davesax1965 wrote:
