2015 UK General Election

I missed this poll on PA at the time, and now the UK are paying and will pay the consequences of the Tory 'majority'... Anyway, as this is PA, political adversity may spark musical creativity: prog's high water mark was under the Tory government 1970 - 1974 and the neo-prog revival of the early 80s came under the Thatcher regime.  As austerity begins to bite (yes, even more) will we see more prog in opposition?

At the very least they have a cadre in Westminster to hold Cameron's feet to the fire for devo max.

ExittheLemming wrote: Can someone explain to me why a demographic who voted against Independence have returned 56 out of 59 SNP MPs? Have the Scots knowingly acceded to creating a larger Tory majority in Westminster or are they naive enough to believe the Nationalists will stop at obtaining devolved decision making powers? or are they so disillusioned with the devil they know best (Labour?) Puzzled but relieved ex Pat, Brisbane Update - there are some press sources claiming that circa 75% of the SNP's rank and file members only joined the party after the successful 'No' vote campaign. The pressure that will be brought to bear on leader Sturgeon to push for another independence referendum will be so severe that it's unlikely to be appeased by Cameron's granting of tax raising powers and/or devolving welfare and transport laws etc All said and done, Scotland is still a one party state

The Scots voted SNP two reasons. About 40% because they genuinely believe in independence, as per the referendum. The remainder? To punish Labour, a party seen as being in total cahoots with the Westminster establishment, the left cheek of the same arse, and a party which has taken its core working class vote in Scotland (and elsewhere) for granted for far too many years. This also explains the fall of three seats in Wales, but to a far lesser extent. They do need to be careful, though. UKIP are gaining in popularity in Wales, and the Assembly Government is, by and large, bloody hopeless and takes its core vote very much for granted.

Do I dislike the Labour Party? Yep. Do I blame them for their current predicament? Most certainly I do, because there is no one else to blame but themselves.

Any other analysis of this election falls well short. Labour as a major force in British politics is now in dire need of emergency resuscitation. And it well and truly serves them right.

ExittheLemming wrote: Can someone explain to me why a demographic who voted against Independence have returned 56 out of 59 SNP MPs? Have the Scots knowingly acceded to creating a larger Tory majority in Westminster or are they naive enough to believe the Nationalists will stop at obtaining devolved decision making powers? or are they so disillusioned with the devil they know best (Labour?) Puzzled but relieved ex Pat, Brisbane

Edited by Dean - May 11 2015 at 06:21

As a footnote to this:

Dean wrote: Kirillov wrote: Dean wrote: lazland wrote: Dean wrote: TGM: Orb wrote: Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption. The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead. Spot on Rob. The Conservatives did not gain from Labour, they reaped the reward of the Lib/Dem collapse and benefited from the success of the SNP in Scotland. The Scots have a hollow victory here, they will now be governed by a party that none of them voted for regardless of what paltry powers they secured by losing the devolution vote. A rarity, I know, but I beg to differ, Dean. The Tories most certainly did gain from Labour. Witness Balls losing his seat, a staggering achievement for a Shadow Chancellor up against a supposedly unpopular government. He was not the only one. I watched declaration after declaration, and, in seat after seat, even in safe Labour seats, there were swings to Tory candidates. Conservatives gained from both Labour, and the Lib Dem collapse. How much advantage did Labour take from the Lib Dem collapse? Sod all. Labour were truly stuffed, and there is no other place to look to for blame than themselves. Aside from Ed Balls what other seats did the Conservatives win from Labour? [Sorry, that's not a taunt, I honestly don't know - I have tried looking at the Tory gains one by one but my PC keeps crashing] All the Tory gains I have seen so far have been gained from the Lib Dems... having said that, Vince Cable, Lynne Featherstone and Simon Hughes all lost their seats to Labour. Vale of Clwyd, Gower, Telford, Plymouth Moor View, Derby North, Bolton West as well as Ed Balls' seat. (There may be more but I haven't been able to find them).  and Southampton Itchen.  Looking at those they are not vote-swings away from Labour, they are the effect of the Lib Dem vote swinging to Conservative in marginal seats. And frankly, those are less than the Labour wins from Conservatives: Chester, Dewsbury, Wolverhampton South West, Hove, Wirral West, Brentford and Isleworth, Enfield North, Ilford North, Ealing Central, and Lancaster and Fleetwood.  So I say again: The Conservatives did not gain from Labour, they reaped the reward of the Lib/Dem collapse and benefited from the success of the SNP in Scotland.

Kirillov wrote: Dean wrote: lazland wrote: Dean wrote: TGM: Orb wrote: Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption. The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead. Spot on Rob. The Conservatives did not gain from Labour, they reaped the reward of the Lib/Dem collapse and benefited from the success of the SNP in Scotland. The Scots have a hollow victory here, they will now be governed by a party that none of them voted for regardless of what paltry powers they secured by losing the devolution vote. A rarity, I know, but I beg to differ, Dean. The Tories most certainly did gain from Labour. Witness Balls losing his seat, a staggering achievement for a Shadow Chancellor up against a supposedly unpopular government. He was not the only one. I watched declaration after declaration, and, in seat after seat, even in safe Labour seats, there were swings to Tory candidates. Conservatives gained from both Labour, and the Lib Dem collapse. How much advantage did Labour take from the Lib Dem collapse? Sod all. Labour were truly stuffed, and there is no other place to look to for blame than themselves. Aside from Ed Balls what other seats did the Conservatives win from Labour? [Sorry, that's not a taunt, I honestly don't know - I have tried looking at the Tory gains one by one but my PC keeps crashing] All the Tory gains I have seen so far have been gained from the Lib Dems... having said that, Vince Cable, Lynne Featherstone and Simon Hughes all lost their seats to Labour. Vale of Clwyd, Gower, Telford, Plymouth Moor View, Derby North, Bolton West as well as Ed Balls' seat. (There may be more but I haven't been able to find them).

chopper wrote: Blacksword wrote:   I wouldn't have said the left have a great economic record IMO, but that's not really the point. Their managenemt of the economy in the 70's was appalling,  Not just the 70s, Gordon Brown flogged a load of our gold bullion that cost us billions of dollars.

The Tories left a higher deficit as a proportion of GDP in 1997 than Labour did in 2010, the banking crisis and subsequent recession was a result of Reaganite/Thatcherite removals of the division between investment and saving banks (which New Labour admittedly colluded with) and the Coalition borrowed far more than Labour did for a decidedly underwhelming recovery and failed to meet their deficit targets (which was supposedly the whole point of their austerity measures). I'm not huge on New Labour's economic approach but the Conservatives have been consistently less competent economically for at least twenty five years now.

(this is without even getting into the flagrant, unapologetic corruption of the Conservative party's relationship with privatisation, or the absolute unwillingness of the Conservatives to cancel ideological programs such as Workfare when it turns out they don't save any money and don't have any meaningful impact)


Edited by TGM: Orb - May 08 2015 at 10:03

Blacksword wrote:   I wouldn't have said the left have a great economic record IMO, but that's not really the point. Their managenemt of the economy in the 70's was appalling,

TGM: Orb wrote: Blacksword wrote: TGM: Orb wrote: Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption. The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead. Unfortunately if Labour want power again, they will need to return to the NuLab doctrine of sucking up to big business, endless spin and glossy presentation. The British public do not trust the left when it comes to the crunch. Sadly. I think that's partly because the Left never, ever actually defend their generally superior economic record against the tabloids and the Tories, though. And because somehow governments and newspapers don't have the same legal responsibility to the public wrt basic factual honesty that companies have to their shareholders. Mr Farage has left the saloon doors swinging with his suggestion he might seek reelection as party leader. We'll see how that works out. On the Scots' referendum, I expect the Tories to take some approach to further devolve Scotland (whether that's fiscal control or 'English votes for English issues' or whatever) in order to neutralise them as an electoral risk. Whether another referendum follows will probably depend on this.

I wouldn't have said the left have a great economic record IMO, but that's not really the point. Their managenemt of the economy in the 70's was appalling, and just as the SNP have handed Dracula the keys to bloodbank, by wiping out labour in Scotland, Callaghans labour party handed the UK to Thatcher on a plate.

They are still a better option for most people than a conservative government though. Trickle down economics doesn't work as history clearly shows.