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Knife View Drop Down
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Points: 17 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 80's Genesis vs. 80's Yes
    Posted: October 03 2010 at 11:12
Greetings,

Recently I've been listening to 80's era Genesis and 80's era Yes. What are your thoughts?

1980/81- Genesis: Duke & Abacab, Yes: Drama. Duke is probably regarded as the highpoint in the Genesis 80's catalog (although actually recorded in 1979) and Abacab still had longer songs (title track & Dodo/Luker). Drama was the most underrated Yes album IMO and has held up reasonably well over the years (Trevor Horn=awesome).

1983- Genesis: Shapes/Mama Album, Yes: 90125. Both groups officially go 'pop'. Genesis with That's All, Illegal Alien, etc. However there's the classic first side which includes Mama and Home by the Sea/Second Home by the Sea. Yes release their most commercially successful album with Trevor Rabin: Owner of a Lonely Heart (great video), It Can Happen, Hold On, etc. However nobody is safe in the 80's: Steve Hackett=GTR, Steve Howe=Asia/GTR, and Peter Gabriel shocks a monkey or two.

1986/87- Genesis: Invisible Touch, Yes: Big Generator. Genesis (thanks to Phil's video success) are MTV superstars (Invisible Touch, In Too Deep, Land of Confusion). Yes, not so much...but still heard on Top 40 radio with Love Will Find A Way and Rhythm of Love. Jon Anderson moves to Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe which is a step toward 'Union'.

I'm surprised by the similarities, but who do you think benefited most from the 80's (over)exposure?

Thanks,
Knife

Edited by Knife - October 03 2010 at 11:15
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Points: 8581 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 11:18
Yes gets the credit for at least attempting to bring the prog/pop worlds together. 90125 had some very strong moments. Big Generator was revolting. Genesis had nothing for me once Hackett split.

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Points: 8 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 12:35

+1
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 12:40
Yes, easily.

Drama and 90125 are legitimately good albums and I say that with no caveat. never got into 80s genesis much, though Duke and Genesis I still consider highly respectable art pop albums. I'm never in the mood for them. Invisible Touch is ok (cue American Psycho monologue) but Big Generator is the better pop album.

it's funny both bands came back and made even better albums--Talk and We Can't Dance around the same time.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 12:58
It's a difficult one. As much as I prefer Genesis overall, I think Yes were slightly stronger in the 80's. Drama and 90125 are both excellent albums. Genesis only made one 'excellent' album in the 80's, and that was Duke.
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Points: 918 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 12:58

True, Yes was more genuinely "proggy" than Genesis in the 80's... but Genesis (with Phil Collins at the helm) made a better pop band than Yes did.  From a progressive rock standpoint, Yes wins easily... but from a purely objective, musical standpoint, I think Genesis was better at what they did (making pop music) than Yes was.

Just my opinion, though.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 13:03
Originally posted by Mr. Maestro Mr. Maestro wrote:

True, Yes was more genuinely "proggy" than Genesis in the 80's... but Genesis (with Phil Collins at the helm) made a better pop band than Yes did.  From a progressive rock standpoint, Yes wins easily... but from a purely objective, musical standpoint, I think Genesis was better at what they did (making pop music) than Yes was.


Just my opinion, though.


I think there was always more of a 'rock' element to Yes, which probably made that transition to a more pop sound harder for them.
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 13:17
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Yes gets the credit for at least attempting to bring the prog/pop worlds together. 90125 had some very strong moments. Big Generator was revolting. Genesis had nothing for me once Hackett split.


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Points: 13627 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 13:50
Big Generator aside, I loved both of their output, although there is a health warning attached to that, in that I never regarded Drama as a true Yes album. And yes, I know, I am in a very small minority.
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Points: 15745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 14:22
Yes just released 2 pop rock albums in the 80s, if they're good or not that depends on the listener, I enjoy them for what they are. Drama on the other hand is a superb Prog Rock album that is much different from their previous Prog efforts, it incorporates some New Wave sensibilities.
 
Genesis did release 4 pop albums which I wouldn't consider actually pop rock if not closer to the adult contemporary music of Phil Collins in some aspects. However, Duke is superb no doubt, a rather adventurous pop album with an underlying story and great keyboard playing. Abacab, Genesis and Invisible Touch featured catchy pop singles which some I enjoy, for example Mama, That's All, Abacab, Land of Confusion..
 
I didn't live in the 80s so I will just give my guess.. Genesis was more popular because they were more pop in the straightest sense, Yes had guitar riffs and maybe it wasn't the 80s pop style the masses liked as much as the more light-hearted Genesis pop with Collins vocals. 


Edited by The Quiet One - October 03 2010 at 14:22
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Knife View Drop Down
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Points: 17 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 16:39
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Big Generator aside, I loved both of their output, although there is a health warning attached to that, in that I never regarded Drama as a true Yes album. And yes, I know, I am in a very small minority.

Hmmm...to each their own. I know many fans don't consider Drama a proper Yes album, as many do not consider Calling All Stations a proper Genesis album (always tricky with swapping out a lead vocalist isn't it).

I absolutely love Drama (the only ones I like better are The Yes Album, Fragile, Close To The Edge & Going For the One). I still can't appreciate Tormato which I think may be Yes' weakest effort. So for me Drama was a welcome turning point. In fact, I wonder why they didn't ask Trevor Horn back for the new studio album...let's hope Benoit David can fill those shoes.

Edited by Knife - October 03 2010 at 18:53
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Points: 620 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 16:48
They are even. They tell me nothing except Duke and Drama 
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Points: 536 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 18:00
Ug.  I just threw up in my mouth a little.

I'd have to say Yes.  My Phil Collins hate is too deep to permit the alternative.
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Points: 1455 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2010 at 19:04
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Yes gets the credit for at least attempting to bring the prog/pop worlds together. 90125 had some very strong moments. Big Generator was revolting. Genesis had nothing for me once Hackett split.
Ditto...ditto...ditto.  Well said...
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2010 at 00:15
Duke and Drama are both excellent, and I still consider them prog albums rather than pop.
After that, Abacab is decent while I really love 90125, even if it's certainly much more pop it's some of the best pop ever made. Excluding Owner of a Lonely Heart, all the other tracks are great.
All the other albums from both bands in the 80's leave me quite cold.
My best appreciation goes to Yes, although it's probably because after that period they came back to making really good proggy music, while Genesis remained doing only good pop. 
 
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Points: 1305 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2010 at 00:59
Neither were as good as 80's Rush, who weren't half as good as 80's Kansas.
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2010 at 01:00
Originally posted by Harry Hood Harry Hood wrote:

Neither were as good as 80's Rush, who weren't half as good as 80's Kansas.


...who weren't half as good as 80's KC
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Points: 3196 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2010 at 01:12
YES FOR SURE.
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Harry Hood View Drop Down
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Points: 1305 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2010 at 02:16
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Originally posted by Harry Hood Harry Hood wrote:

Neither were as good as 80's Rush, who weren't half as good as 80's Kansas.


...who weren't half as good as 80's KC

Well yeah that goes without saying. Comparing anything to 80's KC is just unfair really.  (Including every other era of KC, but that's another thread.).

In terms of bands that weren't from another dimension, Power-era Kansas was probably the best 80's-era prog band.
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Points: 2165 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2010 at 06:08

There are prog elements on even the poppiest Genesis 80s albums....just think of how many people were turned on to progressive rock by picking up Invisible Touch.  They see those awful videos on MTV, go out and buy the record and end up getting into Tonight or Domino.  80s Genesis was a stepping stone to progressive rock for a lot of people.  Same can be said of Yes' 90125, but Genesis sold far more records, thus touching far more people in the 80s than Yes. 

I prefer 80s Genesis....I think Duke and Abacab are exceptional records.  Not to sl*g off 80s Yes, but Drama, while a solid album, was the blueprint for Asia (ugh!) and GTR (double ugh!).
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