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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Are they progressive?
    Posted: March 27 2010 at 03:21
I wanted to create a topic to talk about the bands that often discussed about their progression such as Radiohead, Muse, Swans, Can, Neu!, Neurosis, Cult Of Luna etc. Is there any bands like these that their progression is questionable in some views?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2010 at 05:25
Radiohead are definitely prog. Their attitude is maybe the proggiest of all bands of this millennium. We just have to admit that the prog of the 70's doesn't define the prog of today. Jonny Greenwood alone would take any band to the Olympus of prog.

Muse do have some prog leanings, but have still some way to go. Of the others I have no opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2010 at 06:14
"Bands like these" is a little problematic, since there's a world of difference between, say, Muse and Neu.

If we limit our discussion to Krautrock bands, I certainly believe it was a wise decision to incorporate them in a website devoted to progressive rock. Can and Neu may have recorded albums which sound quite different from what their "symphonic" contemporaries were doing (e.g. Yes, Genesis, Jane, Novalis) but ALL these bands shared the same adventurous spirit and they all played "progressive" music as defined by this site.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2010 at 06:15
Seems a strange list of bands you have there DP. Some are from the 70's, some are more recent, and at least one is not listed on this site as prog anyway. Why did you choose those particular bands for debate? Even musically, there seems little to connect them. What do you think is common to them?
 
I am not aware of questions being raised about Can or Neu! for example. Where have you come across their prog credentials being questioned?
 
What are your own views on their "Progression"?


Edited by Easy Livin - March 27 2010 at 10:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2010 at 06:27
I write those bands just for example. I know the differences between them.
Can and Neu! example are given for general krautrock genre, it's definite that they are progressive bands in general at least for me but I just had the felt of giving them as examples. 
The reason of this topic is to find about more problematic bands and listen the opinions about them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2010 at 10:59
Still not sure where you're coming from here DP. There seems to be litle in common between the bands you have chosen.  Are you looking for separate debates about each of these bands?
 
You say that you are sure Can and Neu! are prog bands. Where have you seen it suggested they are not?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2010 at 23:31
There were a few threads a few weeks ago were Dream Theater Progressiveness was being questioned and debated. As well as Pink Floyd's.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2010 at 23:59
I was against Radioghead inclusion when suggested, still don't believe their Prog credentials (for whatever the credentials count) will grant them a position among the icons of Progressive Rock, but my opinion has changed a lot and I wouldn't question their inclusion today, because they took influences from Prog symbols as Pink Floyd, worked them in their own way and released an original and quality product that at least has several characteristics of our beloved genre.
 
I don't see how Can and Neu! may not be considered Prog.
 
Don't know or care enough to research about Neurosis or Cult of Luna, so can't give my opinion
 
Swans is a Post Punk/No Wave band and I don't see why should they be added.
 
Iván
 
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 05:19
Can is one of the most progressive bands of prog-history. They were the first to play acid, proto-punk, soundscapes and some of their songs have never aged! They can still be listened to as modern music. I agree with some other bands you mentioned, but Can doesn't deserve a place in this topic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 05:48

^ Ivan - Radiohead may not be Prog rock but they are progressive and they do bring a heightened form of music to the masses.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 08:51
Can is most definitely prog and also a very progressive band.  As Easy Livin asked, whoever suggested they aren't? Confused

Radiohead and Muse...it depends on what you define as prog.  Do you place more importance on technicality and odd time signatures or form?  If it's the latter, they are definitely much closer to what prog is all about than several modern prog bands whose progginess is generally not questioned.  In any case, both make progressive music. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 11:11
I add my voice to everyone who says Can is a prog band. We had in the past discussion about the difference between prog and progressive but Can is an example (actually one of the best examples IMO) to a band that is both.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 11:36
Originally posted by MaxerJ MaxerJ wrote:

^ Ivan - Radiohead may not be Prog rock but they are progressive and they do bring a heightened form of music to the masses.

 
If they are not part of the Progressuive ocj genre...They don't belog here, no matter how progressive (adjective) they are....And that description "they do bring a heightened form of music to the masses", sounds incredibly prog snob even to me, the purpose of Prog is to bring the joy of music to a sector of the population thatwants something different to top 40's, not to enlighten anybody...At the end, It's just Rock & Roll.
 
But I said I believe they are part of the genre, unlike I thought some years ago, not enough to put them in the level of Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Kansas, Renaisance, Caravan, Magma, etc, but enough to be here.
 
Iván
 
 
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 12:23
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


If they are not part of the Progressuive ocj genre...They don't belog here, no matter how progressive (adjective) they are....And that description "they do bring a heightened form of music to the masses", sounds incredibly prog snob even to me, the purpose of Prog is to bring the joy of music to a sector of the population thatwants something different to top 40's, not to enlighten anybody...At the end, It's just Rock & Roll.
 
But I said I believe they are part of the genre, unlike I thought some years ago, not enough to put them in the level of Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Kansas, Renaisance, Caravan, Magma, etc, but enough to be here.
 
Iván 

Ivan, I'm usually a fan of yours, but here you are talking bollox, I'm sorry to say.

What is progressive music? IMO it is music that explores new ways and sounds with a new attitude and gives a sh*t to the "laws" or regulations of each genre. Progressive doesn't have to sound like the 70's bands that you list above. If there is a well-known band more interested in "exploring new ways" than Radiohead, please name it.

IMO Radiohead are very progressive in their thinking and for that reason must be included in Prog Archives. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 16:40
And how about Yngwie J. Malmsteen? He uses a lot of classical influences and compose with classical forms (i mean, Sarabande, Suite, Fugue, i dont really now the name of that). 

Edited by Prog966 - March 28 2010 at 17:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 18:49
Every genre on this site will have bands that can be seen as questionable as theres no set in stone cast for what prog rock should be, and most bands have at least one track that can be considered an attempt at pop, the trick is deciding how far a band generally goes and in which direction. Naturally this will lead to a few contraversial inclusions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 19:00
Originally posted by OT Räihälä OT Räihälä wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


If they are not part of the Progressuive ocj genre...They don't belog here, no matter how progressive (adjective) they are....And that description "they do bring a heightened form of music to the masses", sounds incredibly prog snob even to me, the purpose of Prog is to bring the joy of music to a sector of the population thatwants something different to top 40's, not to enlighten anybody...At the end, It's just Rock & Roll.
 
But I said I believe they are part of the genre, unlike I thought some years ago, not enough to put them in the level of Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Kansas, Renaisance, Caravan, Magma, etc, but enough to be here.
 
Iván 

Ivan, I'm usually a fan of yours, but here you are talking bollox, I'm sorry to say.

What is progressive music? IMO it is music that explores new ways and sounds with a new attitude and gives a sh*t to the "laws" or regulations of each genre. Progressive doesn't have to sound like the 70's bands that you list above. If there is a well-known band more interested in "exploring new ways" than Radiohead, please name it.

IMO Radiohead are very progressive in their thinking and for that reason must be included in Prog Archives. Smile

For God's sake...Have you read my post before saying I'm speaking b0ollox????

Maxer XC says Radiohead is not Progressive Rock, but progressive

Originally posted by Maxer XC Maxer XC wrote:

Ivan - Radiohead may not be Prog rock but they are progressive and they do bring a heightened form of music to the masses.

I say if a band (Any band, not specifically Radiohead) is not Prog (Progressive Rock), then they shouldn't be here but I also say that I believe Radiohead is a Prog band,

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe they are part of the genre, unlike I thought some years ago, not enough to put them in the level of Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Kansas, Renaisance, Caravan, Magma, etc, but enough to be here.

So I say Radiohead is Prog, but not in the level of the icoins of the genre...This is my opinion, and you may like it or not, but you can't call it bollocks.

BTW: They must not be included here as you say THEY ARE ALREADY HERE!!!

So, if you don't want a harsh reply, be careful with the words you use, specially if you didn't understood the post.

Iván



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 28 2010 at 19:01
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 19:19
there must be some misunderstanding... whoo... there must be some kind of a mistake... whoooo..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 20:32
^LOLLOL

Thanks Micky I spewed my drink on my monitor. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2010 at 21:49
In my opinion, Radiohead is progressive in the sense that they defied the traditional boundaries of music at the time and progressed music into further realms.  Ivan's right, they're progressive in a certain sense, but not to the same extent or to a similar sense that aforementioned bands are.

Since no one has addressed Neurosis or Cult of Luna:

Neurosis definitely fits the bill of progressive.  They practically invented the Post Metal genre.  They also fit numerous other traditional progressive rock archetypes, like using nontraditional instruments for the genre, experimenting with time signatures and soundscapes, and blending elements of other genres to create something wholly different.
Cult of Luna is a fairly straightforward post metal band, a genre that is considered progressive for its nature and purpose, and certain nuances, but CoL has shown a lot of progressiveness in their latest two releases, doing more experimental stuff with their time signatures, texturing, instruments, and atmosphere, so even inside the post metal genre, I would say they are deserving of their progressive title.
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