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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog & Alternative Rock don`t mix
    Posted: January 25 2006 at 08:50

In My Opinion Prog & Alternative Rock don`t mix  and heres why ....

Alternative Rock is born out of whatever intelligence can be found in Punk Rock , Punk being the genre that tried to KILL prog in the 70`s  (but failed) is a good reason why Prog and Alternative rock should never be mentioned in the same sentence , as a mark of respect to our ELITE form of art (Prog) and those Progressive Titans who got screwed by commerce around that time ....  I have been trying to get you guys to see the light on this subject for awhile now, I hope this topic makes you think about it or perhaps give some interesting thought and ideas to perhaps Enlighten me.  

After all I wouldn`t mix my finest Scotch whisky with some cheap no name brand Cola would you ?  because thats what you are doing when you mix Prog with Alternative rock you are making the Prog lesser quality, oh sure art is about expression, thats granted ... but is a fart art ?  



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 08:51
I hate the phrase "Alternative Rock". Alternative my arse.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:11
sl1pp3ry: And what's your reason again of not using my poll to discuss this?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:18

Alternative rock is a term used to describe the music of american rock bands, who for whatever reason think they are better than the mtv top 10 list. They do not have the instrumental, nor compositional skills to make anything worthwhile, yet they are too cool to go money machine straight away.

When they do go money machine, they can still acclaim alternativeness, due to the drummer being bald, and the final track on their newest album featuring 4 notes from a violin.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:24
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Alternative rock is a term used to describe the music of american rock bands, who for whatever reason think they are better than the mtv top 10 list. They do not have the instrumental, nor compositional skills to make anything worthwhile, yet they are too cool to go money machine straight away.

When they do go money machine, they can still acclaim alternativeness, due to the drummer being bald, and the final track on their newest album featuring 4 notes from a violin.

sure ... and all prog bands are absolutely top notch!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:28
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Alternative rock is a term used to describe the music of american rock bands, who for whatever reason think they are better than the mtv top 10 list. They do not have the instrumental, nor compositional skills to make anything worthwhile, yet they are too cool to go money machine straight away.

When they do go money machine, they can still acclaim alternativeness, due to the drummer being bald, and the final track on their newest album featuring 4 notes from a violin.

sure ... and all prog bands are absolutely top notch!

No not all prog bands are top notch, but they try hard  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:28
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Alternative rock is a term used to describe the music
of american rock bands, who for whatever reason think they are better
than the mtv top 10 list. They do not have the instrumental, nor
compositional skills to make anything worthwhile, yet they are too cool
to go money machine straight away.


When they do go money machine, they can still acclaim
alternativeness, due to the drummer being bald, and the final track on
their newest album featuring 4 notes from a violin.



LMFBO.

Poxx.

What a mean, mean, series of nasty things you have to say.

Ahh me.

Well.... bad news, kids.

"Emo" is where all the best new prog is going to be coming from.

Piss and moan and shout and what-have-you....

No matter.

It's going to happen.

It's happening already.

SM.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:30
Originally posted by SlipperFink SlipperFink wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Alternative rock is a term used to describe the music
of american rock bands, who for whatever reason think they are better
than the mtv top 10 list. They do not have the instrumental, nor
compositional skills to make anything worthwhile, yet they are too cool
to go money machine straight away.


When they do go money machine, they can still acclaim
alternativeness, due to the drummer being bald, and the final track on
their newest album featuring 4 notes from a violin.



LMFBO.

Poxx.

What a mean, mean, series of nasty things you have to say.

Ahh me.

Well.... bad news, kids.

"Emo" is where all the best new prog is going to be coming from.

Piss and moan and shout and what-have-you....

No matter.

It's going to happen.

It's happening already.

SM.
I`m sure that means something ? but what I just don`t know
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:36
Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

In My Opinion Prog & Alternative Rock don`t mix  and heres why ....

Alternative Rock is born out of whatever intelligence can be found in Punk Rock , Punk being the genre that tried to KILL prog in the 70`s (but failed) rubbish. Punk was a reaction against acts like the Stones, Who, Rod Stewart etc becoming distant from their roots and playing overpriced stadium gigs. Punks were either indifferent to prog (the big symphonic acts) or actually liked some of it - Johnny Rotten was a fan of VDGG/Hammill and Krautrock, the Damned were Soft Machine fans and were produced by Nick Mason and so on is a good reason why Prog and Alternative rock should never be mentioned in the same sentence , as a mark of respect to our elite form of art (Prog) and those Progressive Titans who got screwed by commerce around that time  ELP, Yes, Genesis, Tull and Pink Floyd all enjoyed some of their biggest chart successes in 1977-78. I'm sure they felt extremely exploited!  ( I have been trying to get you guys to see the light on this subject for awhile now, I hope this topic makes you think about it or perhaps give some interesting thought and ideas to perhaps Enlighten me.  

I'd rather be stuck on a desert island with Doolittle by The Pixies, just about any Pere Ubu album or Husker Du's Warehouse Songs and Stories than with Tales From Topographic Oceans, Pictures At An Exhibition or The Wall. Prog produced its share of duds, and the alternative scene continues to throw up genuinely inventive and creative artists who may have no place on the archive but who can be enjoyed by anybody with an open mind. 

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:41
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

In My Opinion Prog & Alternative Rock don`t mix  and heres why ....

Alternative Rock is born out of whatever intelligence can be found in Punk Rock , Punk being the genre that tried to KILL prog in the 70`s (but failed) rubbish. Punk was a reaction against acts like the Stones, Who, Rod Stewart etc becoming distant from their roots and playing overpriced stadium gigs. Punks were either indifferent to prog (the big symphonic acts) or actually liked some of it - Johnny Rotten was a fan of VDGG/Hammill and Krautrock, the Damned were Soft Machine fans and were produced by Nick Mason and so on is a good reason why Prog and Alternative rock should never be mentioned in the same sentence , as a mark of respect to our elite form of art (Prog) and those Progressive Titans who got screwed by commerce around that time  ELP, Yes, Genesis, Tull and Pink Floyd all enjoyed some of their biggest chart successes in 1977-78. I'm sure they felt extremely exploited!  ( I have been trying to get you guys to see the light on this subject for awhile now, I hope this topic makes you think about it or perhaps give some interesting thought and ideas to perhaps Enlighten me.  

I'd rather be stuck on a desert island with Doolittle by The Pixies, just about any Pere Ubu album or Husker Du's Warehouse Songs and Stories than with Tales From Topographic Oceans, Pictures At An Exhibition or The Wall. Prog produced its share of duds, and the alternative scene continues to throw up genuinely inventive and creative artists who may have no place on the archive but who can be enjoyed by anybody with an open mind. 

No to the best of my knowledge punk was started in direct retaliation to prog  and I have read and heard this from many reliable sources    BTW  tales from topographic oceans is a classic ... it takes time to get into but its worth it

Edited by s1ipp3ry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:43
Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

In My Opinion Prog & Alternative Rock don`t mix  and heres why ....

Alternative Rock is born out of whatever intelligence can be found in Punk Rock , Punk being the genre that tried to KILL prog in the 70`s (but failed) rubbish. Punk was a reaction against acts like the Stones, Who, Rod Stewart etc becoming distant from their roots and playing overpriced stadium gigs. Punks were either indifferent to prog (the big symphonic acts) or actually liked some of it - Johnny Rotten was a fan of VDGG/Hammill and Krautrock, the Damned were Soft Machine fans and were produced by Nick Mason and so on is a good reason why Prog and Alternative rock should never be mentioned in the same sentence , as a mark of respect to our elite form of art (Prog) and those Progressive Titans who got screwed by commerce around that time  ELP, Yes, Genesis, Tull and Pink Floyd all enjoyed some of their biggest chart successes in 1977-78. I'm sure they felt extremely exploited!  ( I have been trying to get you guys to see the light on this subject for awhile now, I hope this topic makes you think about it or perhaps give some interesting thought and ideas to perhaps Enlighten me.  

I'd rather be stuck on a desert island with Doolittle by The Pixies, just about any Pere Ubu album or Husker Du's Warehouse Songs and Stories than with Tales From Topographic Oceans, Pictures At An Exhibition or The Wall. Prog produced its share of duds, and the alternative scene continues to throw up genuinely inventive and creative artists who may have no place on the archive but who can be enjoyed by anybody with an open mind. 

No to the best of my knowledge punk was started in direct retaliation to prog  and I have read and heard this from many reliable sources    BTW  tales from topographic oceans is a classic ... it takes time to get into but its worth it

Such as....?

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:44
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

In My Opinion Prog & Alternative Rock don`t mix  and heres why ....

Alternative Rock is born out of whatever intelligence can be found in Punk Rock , Punk being the genre that tried to KILL prog in the 70`s (but failed) rubbish. Punk was a reaction against acts like the Stones, Who, Rod Stewart etc becoming distant from their roots and playing overpriced stadium gigs. Punks were either indifferent to prog (the big symphonic acts) or actually liked some of it - Johnny Rotten was a fan of VDGG/Hammill and Krautrock, the Damned were Soft Machine fans and were produced by Nick Mason and so on is a good reason why Prog and Alternative rock should never be mentioned in the same sentence , as a mark of respect to our elite form of art (Prog) and those Progressive Titans who got screwed by commerce around that time  ELP, Yes, Genesis, Tull and Pink Floyd all enjoyed some of their biggest chart successes in 1977-78. I'm sure they felt extremely exploited!  ( I have been trying to get you guys to see the light on this subject for awhile now, I hope this topic makes you think about it or perhaps give some interesting thought and ideas to perhaps Enlighten me.  

I'd rather be stuck on a desert island with Doolittle by The Pixies, just about any Pere Ubu album or Husker Du's Warehouse Songs and Stories than with Tales From Topographic Oceans, Pictures At An Exhibition or The Wall. Prog produced its share of duds, and the alternative scene continues to throw up genuinely inventive and creative artists who may have no place on the archive but who can be enjoyed by anybody with an open mind. 

No to the best of my knowledge punk was started in direct retaliation to prog  and I have read and heard this from many reliable sources    BTW  tales from topographic oceans is a classic ... it takes time to get into but its worth it

Such as....?

 Music archives mostly .. documentaries ... so on .. the thing is its always the same story .. punk came along to destroy prog .. and when the story is the same from many different sources the integrity of whom is saying it I normally believe as a rule

Edited by s1ipp3ry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:50

Punk has nothing to do with Prog. It's  certainly not the exact opposite. Punk emerged as an opposition to conformity, civilized conduct etc.. It's as much in opposition to disco and popular music as to prog.

And although some alternative rock bands have punk roots or influences, these are only a small part of all bands which could be labeled alternative or independent.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:51
Nothing wrong with mixing alternative and prog. Nothing wrong with mixing any musical styles. Isn't that where prog came from in the first place? Remember, prog is a contraction of the word 'progressive' - to progress, to move forward. If you don't fuse, invent, meld, experiment then you stand still and atrophy and what you get is ...... slavish repetition.
Put it this way, if there had never been any fusing of alternative and prog where would we have go the excellent Porcupine Tree.
I rest my case, indeed, I rest my entire set of luggage on this one...


Edited by arcer
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:54
Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Nothing wrong with mixing alternative and prog. Nothing wrong with mixing any musical styles. Isn't that where prog came from in the first place. Remember people, prog is a contraction of the word 'progressive' to progress, to move forward. If you don't fuse, invent, meld, experiment then you stand still and atrophy and what you get is ...... slavish repetition.
Put it this way, if there had never been any fusing of alternative and prog where would we have go the excellent Porcupine Tree.
I rest my case, indeed, I rest my entire set of luggage on this one...
If the term "prog" is literate thats all well and good but I can`t here progress in the new mix of alternative rock and prog all I hear is "we don`t know what we are anymore" rock
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 10:00

OK - in 1976 Johnny Rotten played a selection of his favourite music on Capital Radio. The playlist included tracks from Peter Hammill's Nadir's Big Chance, Captain Beefheart and Tago Mago by Can - all highly rated in the archive. In his autobiography there is a photo of him with shoulder length hair in what he calls 'my Hawkwind phase'.

In the Q/Mojo progressive rock special Captain Sensible (formerly of The Damned) writes about his near obsession with Soft Machine. Nick Mason of Pink Floyd produced the Damned's second album. On the release of Machine Gun Ettiquette, Robert Fripp described Captain Sensible as 'the most exciting young guitarist in Britain'.

On their final UK tour Henry Cow went for a few drinks with future members of The Buzzcocks and The Fall in Manchester. Mark E Smith later stated his admiration for Henry Cow in a Melody Maker interview, and Georgie Born played on one of the Buzzcock's later singles.

Steve Hillage formed an unlikely but genuine friendship with Sham 69's Jimmy Pursey, and played with Sham 69 at the Reading Festival.

Daevid Allen teamed up with Here and Now to play a series of free concerts at mostly punk/new wave venues in 1977, captured on Live Floating Anarchy. He then went to New York where he teamed up with Bill Laswell and other young players on the 'No Wave' scene.

Nik Turner of Hawkwind formed the punky Inner City Unit, and the Hawklords tour featured support from punk poet/songwriter Patrick Fitzgerald. 

Brian Eno was the producer of the New York No Wave sampler featuring a selection of New York underground punk bands.

You next...

 

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 10:06
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

OK - in 1976 Johnny Rotten played a selection of his favourite music on Capital Radio. The playlist included tracks from Peter Hammill's Nadir's Big Chance, Captain Beefheart and Tago Mago by Can - all highly rated in the archive. In his autobiography there is a photo of him with shoulder length hair in what he calls 'my Hawkwind phase'.

In the Q/Mojo progressive rock special Captain Sensible (formerly of The Damned) writes about his near obsession with Soft Machine. Nick Mason of Pink Floyd produced the Damned's second album. On the release of Machine Gun Ettiquette, Robert Fripp described Captain Sensible as 'the most exciting young guitarist in Britain'.

On their final UK tour Henry Cow went for a few drinks with future members of The Buzzcocks and The Fall in Manchester. Mark E Smith later stated his admiration for Henry Cow in a Melody Maker interview, and Georgie Born played on one of the Buzzcock's later singles.

Steve Hillage formed an unlikely but genuine friendship with Sham 69's Jimmy Pursey, and played with Sham 69 at the Reading Festival.

Daevid Allen teamed up with Here and Now to play a series of free concerts at mostly punk/new wave venues in 1977, captured on Live Floating Anarchy. He then went to New York where he teamed up with Bill Laswell and other young players on the 'No Wave' scene.

Nik Turner of Hawkwind formed the punky Inner City Unit, and the Hawklords tour featured support from punk poet/songwriter Patrick Fitzgerald. 

Brian Eno was the producer of the New York No Wave sampler featuring a selection of New York underground punk bands.

You next...

 

who we play with reflects nothing about who we are and what we believe in . Prog musicians are also in buisness, what else is it for ? I fail to see your point  if you are saying that punk and prog have had connections since the 70`s I already knew that (but it was only for buisness reasons not any other reason) 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 10:11
Never mind the waffle - let's have some specific examples to back up your argument.
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 10:53
Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

Nothing wrong with mixing alternative and prog. Nothing wrong with mixing any musical styles. Isn't that where prog came from in the first place. Remember people, prog is a contraction of the word 'progressive' to progress, to move forward. If you don't fuse, invent, meld, experiment then you stand still and atrophy and what you get is ...... slavish repetition.
Put it this way, if there had never been any fusing of alternative and prog where would we have go the excellent Porcupine Tree.
I rest my case, indeed, I rest my entire set of luggage on this one...
If the term "prog" is literate thats all well and good but I can`t here progress in the new mix of alternative rock and prog all I hear is "we don`t know what we are anymore" rock


Without wishing to be rude, perhaps your hearing 'we don't know what we are rock' is because you are expecting to hear things that you have already heard, long Moog solos, 20-minutes songs etc etc. Progressive modern music should not be about aping the style of the 70s greats as far as I'm concerned but all about assimilating those ideas and doing something new with them.
I'm a huge fan of some heavily retro-prog bands, bands who just play within the constraints of existing tropes, but the stuff that really thrills is music which takes those conventions, adapts them and uses them to push a few boundaries or even just cause you to raise your eyebrows in amused surprise. That's prog to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2006 at 10:54
hey! 1000 posts - and it only took a year and a half! 

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