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MortSahlFan View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 19 2022 at 12:17
So many times I'll be having a conversation, and we exchange what we like, and finally end up with someone else saying, "I love foreign movies" and of course I ask what their favorites are, and then pretty underwhelmed.


And these two selections below aren't bad movies. I think I gave the first a 7/10, and the second a 6... It's just that these movies are constantly mentioned, while some of the great non-classics are ignored.


-Cinema Paradiso
-Blue Is The Warmest Colour
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Foreign for whom? Overrated by whom?

I think most of Hollywood movies are overrated, and that since Hollywood exists. They're foreign to me...

I had to look up the original title of "Blue Is The Warmest Colour" (which is La Vie d'Adèle – Chapitres 1 & 2). I don't know if it's overrated since I'm not really interested in ratings, but I do agree that this film was a bit hyped. I personally think that the first 45 minutes are wonderful, but unfortunately, the following two hours the film becomes too demonstrative to convince me.
Regarding Cinema Paradiso, I very much liked that film, but it is rather conventional. I was a projectionist when this film came out, so that adds something to the appreciation of it. It is a good, entertaining and moving film, but not a masterpiece, IMHO.

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For me that would be any non-German movies. I personally think that about 95% of US-movies are total crap. Technically perfect crap, but crap nevertheless. It is as if the same 3 or 4 scripts just have the names changed, a few minor other changes (let's say for a crime movie about a heist they don't rob a bank but a gambling casino, and they don't escape by car but with a motorboat, the top cop who has some major problem is not a drug addict but has a seriously sick wife etc.), et voila! And don't get me started on American comedies with their absolutely childish humour.


Edited by BaldFriede - August 19 2022 at 13:45


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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

For me that would be any non-German movies. I personally think that about 95% of US-movies are total crap. Technically perfect crap, but crap nevertheless. It is as if the same 3 or 4 scripts just have the names changed, a few minor other changes (let's say for a crime movie about a heist they don't rob a bank but a gambling casino, and they don't escape by car but with a motorboat, the top cop who has some major problem is not a drug addict but has a seriously sick wife etc.), et voila! And don't get me started on American comedies with their absolutely childish humour.

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I think you know that I couldn't agree more with you on this subject, Friede..
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Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Foreign for whom? Overrated by whom?

I think most of Hollywood movies are overrated, and that since Hollywood exists. They're foreign to me...

I had to look up the original title of "Blue Is The Warmest Colour" (which is La Vie d'Adèle – Chapitres 1 & 2). I don't know if it's overrated since I'm not really interested in ratings, but I do agree that this film was a bit hyped. I personally think that the first 45 minutes are wonderful, but unfortunately, the following two hours the film becomes too demonstrative to convince me.
Regarding Cinema Paradiso, I very much liked that film, but it is rather conventional. I was a projectionist when this film came out, so that adds something to the appreciation of it. It is a good, entertaining and moving film, but not a masterpiece, IMHO.



The official language here is English, so foreign would be non-English.
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Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Foreign for whom? Overrated by whom?

I think most of Hollywood movies are overrated, and that since Hollywood exists. They're foreign to me...

I had to look up the original title of "Blue Is The Warmest Colour" (which is La Vie d'Adèle – Chapitres 1 & 2). I don't know if it's overrated since I'm not really interested in ratings, but I do agree that this film was a bit hyped. I personally think that the first 45 minutes are wonderful, but unfortunately, the following two hours the film becomes too demonstrative to convince me.
Regarding Cinema Paradiso, I very much liked that film, but it is rather conventional. I was a projectionist when this film came out, so that adds something to the appreciation of it. It is a good, entertaining and moving film, but not a masterpiece, IMHO.



The official language here is English, so foreign would be non-English.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Yes, the official language is English here, but only for communication's sake because most people do at least speak some English. However, for non-native speakers English is a foreign language and movies in English will feel foreign for them.

I grew up bilingually, so I can partially live with your idea. But sorry, movies in German are not foreign movies for me.


Edited by BaldFriede - August 19 2022 at 19:05


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Does "non-English", as mentioned earlier, mean movies not made in England?
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Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

So many times I'll be having a conversation, and we exchange what we like, and finally end up with someone else saying, "I love foreign movies" and of course I ask what their favorites are, and then pretty underwhelmed.

And these two selections below aren't bad movies. I think I gave the first a 7/10, and the second a 6... It's just that these movies are constantly mentioned, while some of the great non-classics are ignored.

-Cinema Paradiso
-Blue Is The Warmest Colour

I'm sorry I just laughed with Friede's comment above and walked away, but it had been a long day.

Firstly, I would never use the term 'Foreign Movies', because you run into the confusion already highlighted above; foreign to whom? 'World Cinema' is a better label. When talking to people, I always refer to 'World and Independent Cinema', because that can include films made in the English Language which are free from the Hollywood machine'. 

I do understand what you're saying however. If you discuss this subject with the majority of people whose first language is English, then their 'World Cinema' palette is usually quite limited to a handful of films in a foreign language which have crossed into the mainstream, of which Cinema Paradiso is certainly one. 

If for instance, I were to ask someone whether they know of any German films, beyond the inevitable 'Das Boot, I might get 'The Lives Of Others' or 'Goodbye Lenin' as they were films which received a higher profile than most in the UK when they were released. Much less likely would anyone mention (for example) Philip Groning's 'The Police Officer's Wife', Valeska Grizebach's 'Western' or Dietrich Bruggeman's 'Stations Of The Cross' which, for various reasons have all caused comment by World Cinema lovers in the UK over recent years. Arguably one of Germany's most mainstream directors, Christian Petzold has a limited following here, even though many of his works are available in the UK.

It is embarrassing to admit that generally speaking, English language speakers still have an aversion to reading subtitles, not seen elsewhere in the world which greatly narrows the range of viewpoints available to them and makes us very narrow and insular. 
 


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So, am I the first one to give a straight answer to the question without making the meaning of 'foreign' a problem?

In the late 90's I saw A Taste of Cherry and was frankly bored to death. Imho it's a perfect example of a film celebrated in the serious, official cinephile circles, and by admitting you didn't get much of anything out of it you are easily seen as a narrow-minded and unintellectual viewer. I bet the highly respected Irani director Abbas Kiarostami has done more interesting films than this one.

https://www.allmovie.com/movie/a-taste-of-cherry-v155018

Edited by Matti - August 20 2022 at 01:01
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Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:


-Cinema Paradiso


That's certainly a top three overrated to me as well. Sentimental, cutesy crap.

...soo we got the Americans, the Brits, the Scots, the Irish, the Aussies + about 7.5 billion foreigners in the world? Here's two average Joe's watching a "foreign movie":)
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Originally posted by Matti Matti wrote:

So, am I the first one to give a straight answer to the question without making the meaning of 'foreign' a problem?

In the late 90's I saw A Taste of Cherry and was frankly bored to death. Imho it's a perfect example of a film celebrated in the serious, official cinephile circles, and by admitting you didn't get much of anything out of it you are easily seen as a narrow-minded and unintellectual viewer. I bet the highly respected Irani director Abbas Kiarostami has done more interesting films than this one.

I hope my comments above didn't imply this is what I think if you don't 'get' a film or director? I'm certainly not academically elitist about it and if Kiarostami isn't your thing, just move on to someone else (whatever you do, DON'T try his film 'Shirin'!)

FWIW (and it's worth very little), I don't get much out of the films of your fellow countryman Aki Kaurismaki, but I put that down to my own deficiency and not his...
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I never believed that elitism -- people like what they like, and it doesn't make someone better/worse because they don't like a movie one is "supposed" to like (I hate the word "supposed to" when it comes to love of any art). I loved "Taste of Cherry" (more than "Close-Up") and was actually re-telling the story the old man told the main character.

Ironically, Aki Kaurismaki is the most recent director I like the most, especially all those movies with Matti Pellonpaa
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Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

I loved "Taste of Cherry" (more than "Close-Up") and was actually re-telling the story the old man told the main character.

Yes, I like both 'Taste Of Cherry' and it's follow-up 'The Wind Will Carry Us' (Parts were filmed on the same sl*g heap) but for me, 'Close-Up' is an audacious masterpiece; I adore it. 

Ironically, Aki Kaurismaki is the most recent director I like the most, especially all those movies with Matti Pellonpaa

I like his politics, but just don't warm to his style of film-making. To each his own, as they say.


Edited by Jared - August 21 2022 at 03:51
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Originally posted by Matti Matti wrote:

So, am I the first one to give a straight answer to the question without making the meaning of 'foreign' a problem?

No, I'm with you here.

Foreign movies, foreign music... Of course logically any artwork that is not from "your" culture is foreign to you, but anyway... Plus lots of people in Turkey mean American movies/films when they are talking about "foreign" stuff. At least, it was the case in the past.

I recently watched the movie entitled Sanatorium pod Klepsydra and I really thought it was overrated. Based on the IMDb reviews and ratings, it sould be an excellent film, but not for me, sorry. There plenty of "foreign" movies that are infinitely better and interesting, that couldn't even get the quarter of its appreciation there.

But these are all subjective...

Edited by Archisorcerus - August 21 2022 at 04:21
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Being English living in Canada.  Have several German, French,Italian and other movies in my collection.  Personally for me it's hard to rate.  Though I much prefer movies with good scenery and action. Whats great about movies now most  have subtitles Smile 
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Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by Matti Matti wrote:

So, am I the first one to give a straight answer to the question without making the meaning of 'foreign' a problem?

In the late 90's I saw A Taste of Cherry and was frankly bored to death. Imho it's a perfect example of a film celebrated in the serious, official cinephile circles, and by admitting you didn't get much of anything out of it you are easily seen as a narrow-minded and unintellectual viewer. I bet the highly respected Irani director Abbas Kiarostami has done more interesting films than this one.

I hope my comments above didn't imply this is what I think if you don't 'get' a film or director? I'm certainly not academically elitist about it and if Kiarostami isn't your thing, just move on to someone else (whatever you do, DON'T try his film 'Shirin'!)

FWIW (and it's worth very little), I don't get much out of the films of your fellow countryman Aki Kaurismaki, but I put that down to my own deficiency and not his...

No problem! I didn't make implications of anyone's comments, just approached this topic with my own point of view, respecting other views.

Glad that my countryman Aki Kaurismäki was brought into the table. I personally think he's overrated, and I'm always frustrated when people talk about "Kaurismäki" (without saying the first name, that is), forgetting that his brother Mika Kaurismäki is a director, too, and I generally prefer Mika's films.
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I haven't seen that many "non English language" (how's that? ;) ) films so it's hard for me to judge. 

I did see Cinema Paradiso and felt it might be overrated.

I saw a really excellent German film at a college that showed non English language films but I don't remember the name of it. It's probably more underrated than overrated though.
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Hi,

This is such a sad topic in my experience, after seeing the things I saw at the Portland International Film Festival, and their complete disregard for someone like me trying HARD to get attention to films other than the English, American and a couple of French and Italian films! The rest, all had (at the very most) half an audience, and the oddball films from Africa (for example) usually had about 20 people in the audience ... screw the quality and what the film was about or meant ... the crappy comedy from France was enjoyed by more people!

It was one of the saddest things I ever saw, and it has gotten only worse since folks on the Internet (and here!!!) think that only the top stuff is good, and the rest not only does not rate, and no one bothers listening to it because it is boring ... it doesn't have any redeeming factors like the typical format of almost every sub-genre listed on PA.

I have favorites, and they are not in one country at all ... a French film, an Italian film, a Spanish film, an English film, a German film, one Australian film, one or two films from South America, a Canadian film, a Kurdish film ... and not a whole lot of American films, because so few of them have stood up to the quality
of the "foreign film" and instead went for "action" and some "glamour" to make sure it could sell enough to double its cost so everyone could go home happier than before!

To me, the worst in America is that the arts are not taught in high school, since its demise by Ronald Reagan and the following Republicans who discovered that "art" was usually a liberal thing, and they did not want to present liberals with any money ... one of the first to lose a lot of support was PBS. And to this day, I sincerely doubt that any "republican" would even consider it all again!

The other issue is that the big names in directing in America, are there for the fame, not the film itself. And despite their help and support for some foreign films (Tarantino and Scorcese helped a lot of film makers at one time), today, almost all directors used in America are nobodies that are merely copying the same thing American TV has been doing for 70 years, and creating a lot of meaningless things ... which have to sell ... regardless, and this often means that the producer is not going to allow a director a whole lot of freedom, and we don't have enough names telling the studio to screw itself ... and the big names that went on to create their own studios, guess what? They did the same thing as the studio!

I don't have an answer ... but a lot of American film is a sad history of shooting and design ... from a literary point of view it is totally senseless and completely stupid ... but audiences will take their action from it!

Cold day in hell we will find another El Topo ... as one drastic example!


Edited by moshkito - September 24 2022 at 11:59
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Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

 
...
-Cinema Paradiso
...

Hi,

This film is important for the many of us that got to see things cut up senseless as in the film, by "authorities" that were determining what they did not want the public to see or know about. And the church, was one of the worst in this aspect ... and they never learned from the Deep Throat affair to keep their mouths shut! And instead got a film to make millions and give videos a leg up!

Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

 
...
-Blue Is The Warmest Colour 
 

I have not seen or found this anywhere to watch, and this is an issue with a lot of foreign films not showing up in places where one can see them later. As I mentioned on a couple of other posts, and about the incredible majority of films that will never hit video or DVD ... they end up in the dumpster, and never seen by many folks, even though they should. I would happily have seen this but in the past 10 years, making it to Portland for the Portland International Film Festival is a massively difficult chore for an older person, and standing online for a half hour for a seat is very uncomfortable. And thus, the film suffers, and I have reviewed quite a large number of films I saw at the PIFF, and they won't even give me a discount of 1% because they are run by the same high folks that run Portland's arts and decide which groups will even try to walk in the carpets in a couple of their halls!
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Botoks (2017)
It was a box office hit and some liked it but from I've read it was crap.
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