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Heart of the Matter View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 07 2022 at 08:21
I think it deserves its own discussion thread, being a full-blown release by a classic prog band. I'll summarize the postures towards the album I've found until now:
1) A new masterpiece
2) Good/Excellent, but without breaking new ground
3) Listenable but somehow disappointing
I tend to agree with number two, for the moment.
...And it's your turn now, what do you think?
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Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

I think it deserves its own discussion thread, being a full-blown release by a classic prog band. I'll summarize the postures towards the album I've found until now:
1) A new masterpiece
2) Good/Excellent, but without breaking new ground
3) Listenable but somehow disappointing
I tend to agree with number two, for the moment.
...And it's your turn now, what do you think?
...

Hi,

Kinda strange to see something listed as "but without breaking new ground" ... which I find rather weird.

Let's see ... take an actor and he/she does Shakespeare and then does a card board show for many years. You call that "breaking new ground"? NO. That's acting, and it doesn't matter the tapestry it is it. So a painter, stops using blue and comes up with a "rose" period ... is that "breaking new ground"? NO. A musician plays another song, and this time he adds one chord he had not used before, probably by accident on a different tuning on the guitar ... is that "breaking new ground"? NO.

You might suggest that all of the music and "style" for the band has to change completely, and that is not likely possible, since it is the same folks and combination of minds and talent! That usually does not change a whole lot, and the majority of bands that last this long don't change much ... and we call the new album by the Rolling Stones ... "breaking new ground"? NO.

Marillion has settled into stories and tales with its lyrics, which kinda came from their old days, when FISH came up with a very theatrical style, that many folks thought PG had started, and he HAD NOT. "Breaking new ground"? NO.

From what I have heard in this album it is very well focused on its point, as was the previous one about F.E.A.R and in many ways that is rather nice, instead of having various songs, some of which are about nothing that matters to you or me. "Breaking New Ground" NO.

Makes me question, how much do you really like and care for "progressive music" and the very folks that represent it so well these days, and do not have to resort to bombastic crap to get their point across and still produce wonderful material, and Marillion has earned that reputation over 40 years of a lot of excellent music ... I suppose that if you like the 5th over the 4th is ok, but saying that the 9th, the latest is not as good as the 4th or the 5th? Very weird. Which suggests one more point ... how much have you listened to it to get the feel, other than a quickie?

In that sense, no wonder you are not breaking new ground ... as if you were looking for something for the band to do, and YOU are not a part of the band!
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Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

I think it deserves its own discussion thread, being a full-blown release by a classic prog band. I'll summarize the postures towards the album I've found until now:
1) A new masterpiece
2) Good/Excellent, but without breaking new ground
3) Listenable but somehow disappointing
I tend to agree with number two, for the moment.
...And it's your turn now, what do you think?

Give me some time as I just got the album. It's a lot to take in lyrically and it seems pretty heavy. A week more listening should do.


Edited by SteveG - March 07 2022 at 16:46
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Marillion are not a band for me. However, I wanted to see what all the fuss and high ratings was about, so I listened. I will give it three stars. All songs sound the same, the tempos are the same, and I don't like the timber of the singer.
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Have not even received my copy yet. Did not pre-order back in October as shipping from across the pond is crazy expensive. Ordered from US seller once they got inventory and at half the price that was on the pre-order.

From what I have been reading the past couple days seems it will fall under #2, with a bit of #3. The heaviness of the lyrics is putting people off it seems, the past 2 years has been heavy enough. I don't want to relive it every time I spin a record recorded in 2021......

We'll see once I spend a week or two listening.
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I have had three listens, and need a few more before I can reach a final judgement and enough to review/rate. It is at least a four star, and potentially another five star effort from the finest band known to mankind.

Cure and Murder Machines are both bona fide Marillion classics. The rest will take time to fully appreciate, which is always the case with them.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Marillion are not a band for me. However, I wanted to see what all the fuss and high ratings was about, so I listened. I will give it three stars. All songs sound the same, the tempos are the same, and I don't like the timber of the singer.

I like some of their earlier stuff with Fish, which is quite different from this. I agree with you about this album. It’s okay music, but nothing that stands out to me. I have listened a lot to neo, but in the past few years the interest has faded and the appeal disappeared. It’s mostly just boring listening to.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

I think it deserves its own discussion thread, being a full-blown release by a classic prog band. I'll summarize the postures towards the album I've found until now:
1) A new masterpiece
2) Good/Excellent, but without breaking new ground
3) Listenable but somehow disappointing
I tend to agree with number two, for the moment.
...And it's your turn now, what do you think?
...


Hi,

Kinda strange to see something listed as "but without breaking new ground" ... which I find rather weird.

Let's see ... take an actor and he/she does Shakespeare and then does a card board show for many years. You call that "breaking new ground"? NO. That's acting, and it doesn't matter the tapestry it is it. So a painter, stops using blue and comes up with a "rose" period ... is that "breaking new ground"? NO. A musician plays another song, and this time he adds one chord he had not used before, probably by accident on a different tuning on the guitar ... is that "breaking new ground"? NO.

You might suggest that all of the music and "style" for the band has to change completely, and that is not likely possible, since it is the same folks and combination of minds and talent! That usually does not change a whole lot, and the majority of bands that last this long don't change much ... and we call the new album by the Rolling Stones ... "breaking new ground"? NO.

Marillion has settled into stories and tales with its lyrics, which kinda came from their old days, when FISH came up with a very theatrical style, that many folks thought PG had started, and he HAD NOT. "Breaking new ground"? NO.

From what I have heard in this album it is very well focused on its point, as was the previous one about F.E.A.R and in many ways that is rather nice, instead of having various songs, some of which are about nothing that matters to you or me. "Breaking New Ground" NO.

Makes me question, how much do you really like and care for "progressive music" and the very folks that represent it so well these days, and do not have to resort to bombastic crap to get their point across and still produce wonderful material, and Marillion has earned that reputation over 40 years of a lot of excellent music ... I suppose that if you like the 5th over the 4th is ok, but saying that the 9th, the latest is not as good as the 4th or the 5th? Very weird. Which suggests one more point ... how much have you listened to it to get the feel, other than a quickie?

In that sense, no wonder you are not breaking new ground ... as if you were looking for something for the band to do, and YOU are not a part of the band!


I think you read (and misread) too much in "not breaking new ground". I don't see a problem with that, I like the album as it is, they don't have any obligation to re-invent themselves, but the innovation is a good point to discuss about a new piece of music. Beyond my own point of view, there might be people thinking and feeling that this album "breaks new ground", and I would like to know their thoughts.
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I've listened to the album enough in order to form some strong opinions. Some good and some bad. I'll write a review and state my impressions then.
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Who would have thought that in 2022 Marillion and Porcupine Tree might be battling for album of the year.
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Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

Who would have thought that in 2022 Marillion and Porcupine Tree might be battling for album of the year.

Hi,

SHUDDER ... COUGH .... SPIT .... GAG ... 

I don't think that SW has the depth of lyrical words, to create something like Marillion has done. In that sense, PT won't even make it to number 100 for me. Specially when the sample we heard had the worst drumming we ever put our ears to! Why not use a metronome, or a VST, instead? It would have been better.

I am not sure that PT will stand up as well anymore. I think they have lost a lot, and they gave up on their last album (the double) that a lot of people thought was an overkill ... which I'm 50/50 on, but it would have made a much better and stronger single album if it was not a double! In other words, SW did not know when not to say something and allow the band to talk with their instruments ... and this part is the one that will hurt them in the new effort. I would love to see them "float" a bit more again, like they did for so long ... but the main issue, and it goes back to the early SW stuff is that he was a pop person, and I think that too much of PT in its new form will be very pop oriented, and to me, that will kill the band. And, honestly, if that happens, deservedly so!

As far as the lyrical work, Marillion, these days, stands alone ... they are not "out of time" and are concurrent with the events, and on par with helping us understand the whole thing, and honestly, just like the old days in Madison and Chicago marching for some things, this is fine with me ... it is meaningful and not just a bunch of NOTHING WORDS that can not stand up after the 6 PM news! 

I trust the words from Marillion. I trust the words from Peter Hammill (for another example), just like I trusted the words from Daevid and Gilly ... they were REAL PEOPLE and they stood out for me in their completeness and wholeness and humanity ... I don't have any kind of similar feeling for SW, and I am not into idol worship or care! In fact, I find a lot of his work, sometimes, winded and opinionated, specially about something meaningless. It probably was way better in HAND.CANNOT.ERASE but while there were a couple of things that were special and nice, in the end, the rest was not as strong. Ninet's piece in that album is the very best that SW can do, but I am not sure he has anything like it any more ... that piece was more about Ninet than it was about SW ... and it had a sincere feeling, that SW does not always show, as if he has to hide behind his ideas and thoughts.


Edited by moshkito - March 08 2022 at 05:46
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

Who would have thought that in 2022 Marillion and Porcupine Tree might be battling for album of the year.

Hi,

SHUDDER ... COUGH .... SPIT .... GAG ... 


LOL
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I'm not a big fan of Marillion after Fish era, but this albums was better than their last recent batch? For their later stuff I find everything kinda new agey and lacking energy and colors (every song has the same mood), but this one was actually quite fun to listen, the guitar has more presence and there are good patterns from drums + bass too.
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My take on it so far: It is yet another masterpiece in the catalogue of the band, making it the third one in a row. Fabulous music, intelligent lyrics and songwriting, absolutely memorable and intense all throughout, simply gracious!
I will let it take its time, however, and see how I feel about it after a couple more spins and god knows how many days more until I decide definitively how I see it.
But in a word, it is a mandatory listen at least.
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Originally posted by A Crimson Mellotron A Crimson Mellotron wrote:

My take on it so far: It is yet another masterpiece in the catalogue of the band, making it the third one in a row. Fabulous music, intelligent lyrics and songwriting, absolutely memorable and intense all throughout, simply gracious!
I will let it take its time, however, and see how I feel about it after a couple more spins and god knows how many days more until I decide definitively how I see it.
But in a word, it is a mandatory listen at least.

Yes, this. I gave it a play this afternoon and pumped up the volume, in spite of working. It gets better with each listen, rather like a fine wine.
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by A Crimson Mellotron A Crimson Mellotron wrote:

My take on it so far: It is yet another masterpiece in the catalogue of the band, making it the third one in a row. Fabulous music, intelligent lyrics and songwriting, absolutely memorable and intense all throughout, simply gracious!
I will let it take its time, however, and see how I feel about it after a couple more spins and god knows how many days more until I decide definitively how I see it.
But in a word, it is a mandatory listen at least.

Yes, this. I gave it a play this afternoon and pumped up the volume, in spite of working. It gets better with each listen, rather like a fine wine.
That makes me happy!! My copy should hit the house Thursday, will play it all weekend to let it soak in.
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Refer to the PA main page if you're interested in my thoughts on the album. My review is in. Option number 3 for me.

Edited by SteveG - March 08 2022 at 12:54
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Only one listen so far. It has some genuine power and Steve Rothery is right back on form. The guy is seriously good. Will need to reserve opinion for time being while I properly digest it.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Refer to the PA main page if you're interested in my thoughts on the album. My review is in. Option number 3 for me.

Aways interested in your thoughts, Steve. That is a very honest review, so respect as always.

FEAR was released in 2016, not 2012. It anticipated very well the arguments in the UK regarding Brexit, and was very farsighted regarding the dirty money flowing through my country.

As for An Hour Before It’s Dark, the band have revisited some familiar themes, especially climate change. However, it is not all doom and gloom. The Crow and the Nightingale is a tribute to Leonard Cohen and Sierra Leone is a track about the place. The latter I have not quite appreciated fully yet, but the former is a wonderful track. Murder Machines and The Cure are, as I have said before, classics from the band. I am still listening to the opening track to fully appreciate it, but Reprogram The Gene I love.

There is a fine balance between lecturing and haranguing an audience, and, by and large, I feel that Marillion get it right. The musicianship is exceptional, and it is pitched at the right level for these times. As I have said before, a few more listens required before I review, but, for me, a very strong four star album at this stage. We are lucky we are still able to debate such a fine band after all this time.
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Refer to the PA main page if you're interested in my thoughts on the album. My review is in. Option number 3 for me.

Aways interested in your thoughts, Steve. That is a very honest review, so respect as always.

FEAR was released in 2016, not 2012. It anticipated very well the arguments in the UK regarding Brexit, and was very farsighted regarding the dirty money flowing through my country.

As for An Hour Before It’s Dark, the band have revisited some familiar themes, especially climate change. However, it is not all doom and gloom. The Crow and the Nightingale is a tribute to Leonard Cohen and Sierra Leone is a track about the place. The latter I have not quite appreciated fully yet, but the former is a wonderful track. Murder Machines and The Cure are, as I have said before, classics from the band. I am still listening to the opening track to fully appreciate it, but Reprogram The Gene I love.

There is a fine balance between lecturing and haranguing an audience, and, by and large, I feel that Marillion get it right. The musicianship is exceptional, and it is pitched at the right level for these times. As I have said before, a few more listens required before I review, but, for me, a very strong four star album at this stage. We are lucky we are still able to debate such a fine band after all this time.
Thanks Steve! 2012 was a typo and will be corrected (along with a few grammatical goofs). Perhaps I had Sounds That Can't Be Made on my mind. Embarrassed  Yes, we are lucky to still get music from this great band, who are a longtime personal favorite of mine. Needless to say, every studio album released is an autobuy for me, as I can't support them enough.

It's quite interesting that "The Crow And The Nightingale" is about the late Leonard Cohen, a brilliant songwriter in his own right. The artwork in the liner notes depicting a silhouetted man wearing a fedora should have tipped me off. Now I have to immediately give the song, and the entire album, another listen after just deciding to put it on the shelf! It's wonderful how music has so many different dimensions that can draw one back to it. So, cheers old friend, and thanks for sharing you insights and opinions! Smile


Edited by SteveG - March 08 2022 at 14:48
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