Musicality...

...I  generally see alot of reviews or whatever that seem to review the Musicians and their musicality...but then i have to ask..what makes a good musician? I think there are three skills needed to call yourself a decent musician and that is:

Composing skills: Does the muscian contribute acitvely to the bands sound? Does he write songs completly on his own? Or it is just some mere riffs here and there?

Technical skills: Is he able to play fluently and on time? Does he use strange chords, scales and does he have an original sound.

Groove skills: Can he concentrate on making song more alive instead of just concentrating on not f**kin up? Does he improvise his solos? Can he play something new when he feels like it, it does not have to make a huge diffrence but alteast be a little different from the studio version.

Anyways i would say that a good musician is 50% composing skills 30% groove skills and 20% technical skills. Anybody else got their opinions on how a good musician should be?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: maidenrulez wrote: ...I  generally see alot of reviews or whatever that seem to review the Musicians and their musicality...but then i have to ask..what makes a good musician? I think there are three skills needed to call yourself a decent musician and that is: Composing skills: Does the muscian contribute acitvely to the bands sound? Does he write songs completly on his own? Or it is just some mere riffs here and there? Technical skills: Is he able to play fluently and on time? Does he use strange chords, scales and does he have an original sound. Groove skills: Can he concentrate on making song more alive instead of just concentrating on not f**kin up? Does he improvise his solos? Can he play something new when he feels like it, it does not have to make a huge diffrence but alteast be a little different from the studio version. Anyways i would say that a good musician is 50% composing skills 30% groove skills and 20% technical skills. Anybody else got their opinions on how a good musician should be? According to these rules classical musicians (in an orchestra) don't stand much of a chance because they are not allowed to groove ... they have to play as exactly as possible. Anways ... for me it is 0% composing skills, 60% technical skills, and 40% groove skills (in rock oriented music). The compositional aspects don't have much to do with the performing musician ...

Well there seem to be many that rate musicians wich are good composers over technical viritoso...I mean just look at Steve vai compared to yngwie malmsteen...both are tecnically gifted but not both are good composers

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Anways ... for me it is 0% composing skills, 60% technical skills, and 40% groove skills (in rock oriented music). The compositional aspects don't have much to do with the performing musician ...

I must admit I find that confusing (although I may cheekily add that it answers several questions in one hit...):

If a musician cannot compose, surely that musician can then only play stuff. That seems to have little value, unless you're in a cover band.

Even then, I would think that if the musician does not have a handle on the compositional process, then no matter how proficient the technical skills or ability to follow a groove (literally "ape", one would surmise), then that musician cannot understand the process that led to the creation of the piece of music, and cannot get a good handle on where the music is coming from - unless the musician only ever plays garage jam type rock - in which case, you quickly pick up aspects of composition or die of boredom.

Likewise, if the musician does not have the skill (as opposed to the understanding), then how can that musician create anything to go with the groove (e.g. a solo), or get any kind of feeling out of or into the music? Again, this is something you necessarily pick up, and is essential (ie you simply can't function as a musician unless you learn to compose at some level).

Composition is, in my opinion, a vital skilset for any musician.

maidenrulez wrote: ...I  generally see alot of reviews or whatever that seem to review the Musicians and their musicality...but then i have to ask..what makes a good musician? I think there are three skills needed to call yourself a decent musician and that is: Composing skills: Does the muscian contribute acitvely to the bands sound? Does he write songs completly on his own? Or it is just some mere riffs here and there? Technical skills: Is he able to play fluently and on time? Does he use strange chords, scales and does he have an original sound. Groove skills: Can he concentrate on making song more alive instead of just concentrating on not f**kin up? Does he improvise his solos? Can he play something new when he feels like it, it does not have to make a huge diffrence but alteast be a little different from the studio version. Anyways i would say that a good musician is 50% composing skills 30% groove skills and 20% technical skills. Anybody else got their opinions on how a good musician should be?

(Another) Good topic

"Musician" is quite a broad term, so I'm working under the assumption that you mean any given member of a prog rock band (rather than including members of symphony orchestras, Punk bands or groups like Boyzone that technically don't contain any musicians) - to give my subsequent answers a little definition;

Composing Skills: Composing within a band structure doesn't have to mean writing entire songs - but that helps. It's better to write most or even just part of a song and let the other musicians fill in the blanks, so they play their parts like they wrote them (which hopefully they will do!). This implies compositional skills on their parts, so it's an important part of being a musician. 25%

Technical Skills: If you ain't got 'em, why are you in a prog band! These mean different things to different people, so let's be a bit clear on what they are; Technique is a specific and well defined way to achieve a task. It doesn't mean virtuosic, or the ability to think completely off the wall - unless that is what is specified by the band in question. It could mean the ability to play a single note and make it shine like the brightest star in the sky - it's all dependent on the artistic approach. The technical skills need to be the most appropriate ones, and that is defined by the music itself. 15%

Groove Skills: In prog rock, I think it's more important to be able to break into and out of the groove, and, in fact, not end up stuck in said groove. Psychedelic jam bands and funk bands get into the groove, and jolly good too - but for prog rock, thinking outside of the groove is more important - so basic grooving skills are a given. 15%

A Real Interest In, Nay, Passion For Music: Now this is massively important IMHO. The wider read you are, musically speaking, the more variety and greater chance of achieving progdom you are going to bring to the band. Narrow-minded geeks who just want to noodle all night long or play in wierisome nonsensical time signatures need not apply. The "Classic" prog band members didn't listen to prog rock 24/7 - there wasn't enough of it around to do that. The best prog tends to come from bands who show a wide range of influences. 50%

Pastasauce wrote: Actually I only agree with the first one, I believe the only truly musical capabilty is composing that's the part where the musical centrae of the brain are needed. Playing an instrument or Perfectly mastering a synthing technique isn't what I'd call a musical skill, it's more technical skill, comparable with assembling a car or painting a house. And for the third, I don't like groovy music. 'A man who works with his hands is a labourer, a man who works with his hands and his mind is a craftsman, a man who works with his hands, his mind and his heart is an artist.'

Great summary quote

However, it kind of contradicts what you started out saying, as it pulls all three together, rather than putting "mind" on a pedestal.

If a man works only with his mind, he does not work, he thinks.

If a man works only with his heart, he does not work, he fantasises.

Just to add some thoughts.... i know several musical school geeks wich has studied guitars for 3 years  and so on and can play several Dream Theater songs by note perfect although they cant compose a single original idea of their own...

They have just learned to compose songs and how to improvise and everything and have gotten into being this mindless guitarist which in reality knows nothing about music...