The Musical Moron - rise of the Non Musician |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||
Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Topic: The Musical Moron - rise of the Non Musician Posted: February 28 2019 at 03:50 |
|
I don't know if other people here have had this problem - "working with idiots who think they're musicians". For nearly ten years, I worked opposite someone I can only describe as a functional moron. He'd had a guitar since the early 60's - changed his strings once (after they'd been on 25 years) - had to get a shop to do it. He could jingle - jangle a few chords, so this naturally made him a musician. As such, he used to delight in telling everyone else he worked with that "he and his mate were doing some "Jamaican ska" (q.v) version of Money Can't Buy Me Love".... he rattled on for hours and hours and hours, "impressing" everyone, until I asked him what key he was in. "I don't know" he said. The man was frankly an imbecile. Every day, he'd be talking about how all electric guitars sounded the same, barre chords (and bending strings) were unnecessary, a 5 watt tranny practice amp was at least as good as a valve amp... basically, he wasn't interested in learning, but appearing to be able to play to impress people with zero knowledge at all. He'd try and strike up a conversation about music, steer it around to the little he knew and sit there with Wikipedia in front of him, reading from the page to try and make it look like he knew what he was talking about. After several years of listening to him talking about "wah wah kick boxes" and how he should record something in 7/4 (he tried doing a version of Black Magic Woman once, it took him seven months) I turned around and said, "Do you remember in the first few weeks of meeting you, I said you should perhaps try learning the blues scale ? " "Oh yes, but I don't want to learn blues. " "Yes, well, you were going on about having a jam in a minor pentatonic scale last week." "Yes...." "That's the blues scale.So. You've basically ignored me and wasted seven years. " And so on and so on and so forth. I eventually said, look. You've had a guitar for nearly 50 years, lying under a bed, gathering dust. I can guarantee I can show you something in two minutes which will take you further than occasionally playing scales up and down ad infinitum. But. You won't listen, you won't do it. So there's no point. I spent ten years wanting to bang his head on the desk and then strangle him. You'd go in every day and he'd be going on about "how he'd had a question and answer session with his mate" or they'd "been playing through a new red kick box". Anyone else come across people like this ? Because, at the end of the day, most guitar janglers and tab followers have no idea of how to actually play an instrument. They fail to learn because they are all about ego... and fail to listen. If you actually want to learn, you'll learn. If you want to pose about, you'll do that as well. I'd rather learn. Sitting opposite a musician for ten years and learning nothing..... says it all.
|
||
|
||
Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
Posted: February 28 2019 at 04:07 | |
I've had worse - I've actually PAID INTO being parts of signed/touring metal bands only to found out nobody could tune by ear, call pitch, or count time signatures without the computer program showing them how.
Needless to say, I don't play with metal "musicians" anymore.
|
||
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
||
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 11584 |
Posted: February 28 2019 at 04:14 | |
^Lol... I'm not a musician nor do I pretend that I am, but I really enjoyed your rant.
|
||
Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: February 28 2019 at 05:30 | |
More observation than rant. ;-)
I wish I hadn't observed it. |
||
|
||
Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: February 28 2019 at 05:38 | |
I might actually put a link up to one of his songs.
I've played it to three people. All of them ripped their headphones off within two bars. The frustration wasn't that he couldn't learn, but just wouldn't listen. He drove me crackers for nearly ten years. Eventually, he just sat there blabbering away to anyone who would listen, which wasn't actually anyone, come to think of it, I'd just sit there and say "No." without looking up from the monitor. Yet still he bulldozed on. And on. And on. Lord above, on tour with metal nuggets who can't even tune up ? Hope it paid well. ;-) Edited by Davesax1965 - February 28 2019 at 05:41 |
||
|
||
wiz_d_kidd
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 13 2018 Location: EllicottCityMD Status: Offline Points: 1423 |
Posted: February 28 2019 at 10:03 | |
So what? Not everyone has the same skills, motivation, knowledge, practice, and time to become proficient, let alone master, an instrument -- or any subject for that matter. If jingle-jangling some chords and blabbing technical nonsense is his speed, let him! I'm sure he's happy. Your post sounds awfully judgemental and snobby, calling someone a moron, idiot and imbecile just because they're not as good as you.
|
||
Vompatti
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: October 22 2005 Location: elsewhere Status: Offline Points: 67407 |
Posted: February 28 2019 at 15:04 | |
Yeah that does seem a bit elitistic. So what if you can't tune by ear, that's what digital tuners are for. And I think we all know what is meant by a wah wah kick box even though the proper term might be dunlope pedal. As for the blues scale, it's a thing of the past anyway, we've had all of the twelve tones at our disposal for over a hundred years now!
A lot of classically trained musicians can't play anything without sheet music, would you label them as "non-musicians" as well?
|
||
Tapfret
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8581 |
Posted: February 28 2019 at 15:26 | |
There are enough people completely inept at the most basic procedures of survival, that run about trying to pull as many people as they can into their Darwinian vortex, (many of them in charge of important things) that simply not being good at or effectively engaged in one of the arts seems a rather wasteful target of the energy required for such palpable outrage.
Merely thinking of my own energy reserves. Your results may vary. |
||
ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: February 28 2019 at 16:31 | |
He does alas... (says they can't improvise, ditto most brilliant songwriters in the history of popular music) Still, the OP at least provides evidence that virtue signalling is in rude health on PA
|
||
Mascodagama
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 01:26 | |
Where I sympathise with Dave is that I'm a believer in the notion that if you know nothing about a subject you should shut the f**k up about it. Knowledge and expertise are actual things, and there are few people more tiresome than the loquacious man with an opinion about everything and a clue about nothing.
Then there is the irritation of enforced proximity to a co-worker who doesn't know when to to stop talking. Murder has been done over less. |
||
Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
Bandcamp Profile |
||
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 11584 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 01:46 | |
Oh come on! Don't we all get annoyed by blabbering fools every now and then? If this is elitist snobbery I'm a snobby elitist and proud of it!
|
||
Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 02:05 | |
Ladies and gentlemen: I am an ex teacher and lecturer. I go out of my way to help people who want to learn. It's very important. I've also got no problems with people not having the same ability level as me in certain areas. After all, I'm not an expert in everything.
The difference is that if I know very little about something, I tend to shut up about it and am very grateful for any help in the matter. The bloke was an ex chemist. I know absolutely nothing about chemistry. I didn't find out the most minor thing about chemistry, decide I was an expert, trumpet it to all around for ten years in order to "impress the ignorant" and then try and steer conversations about chemistry (which I'd started) to "I think you should titrate that with benzene in a glass tubey thing. " Similar thing, if I was sitting opposite John Coltrane, I wouldn't tell him how to play sax based on my ability level. I'd shut the f*ck up and listen. ;-) Blues scale is incidentally a MUST starter for anyone learning to play guitar. And as for Mr Lemming saying I don't think classical musicians can play: no, they CAN play, they can't improvise, as a rule. I've been one. But there's no correlation between them and my erstwhile former colleague, believe me. Edited by Davesax1965 - March 01 2019 at 02:55 |
||
|
||
Tapfret
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8581 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 06:11 | |
That man is head of our executive branch of government with millions of similar types around every corner that put him there. It would be a beautiful thing if they/he would just stick to being bad at music. |
||
ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 06:41 | |
Nah, the little boy who lives down 'faulty memory' lane ain't to be trusted. This is a flimsy strawman: Vompatti asked that if orchestral players can only play if provided with a score would you consider them 'non-musicians?' (neither he or I were asking if you thought they could or couldn't play) Your previously stated position on Vompatti's question is provided below BTW Call me pedantic if you will but in the spirit of 'helping people to learn', I think it's erstwhile OR former (not both as they mean the same thang y'all...)
|
||
Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 09:13 | |
Oh yes, pedantic. ;-) But I'll contend that one. ;-)
But you're asking if an orchestral musician can be compared to someone who takes seven months to record the worst version of Black Magic Woman ever. ;-) Orchestral musicians ARE musicians. We then go into semantics about what makes a musician, of course. The problem is that there's only one term - "musician" - and that covers an entire spectrum. Including the jingle janglers. But what we're discussing here is someone of absolutely negligible skill level who spends his time bigging himself up to mammoth proportions. Jingle jangler he may be. OK, fine, so long as he realises he's a jingle jangler. But oh no, doesn't happen. I'd be fine saying "this is a fine orchestral musician" or "this is a fine improvising musician" (and there is a difference between the two, but what we are talking about is someone who is possibly the worst musician I've ever met in nearly 45 years, well, bottom five, who's bigging himself up by being at the wrong end of the Dunning Kruger scale. |
||
|
||
Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 09:14 | |
Incidentally. The "Little boy" is older than you, and, er, is a musician. ;-)
|
||
|
||
Argo2112
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2017 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4462 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 09:44 | |
I'm a drummer (insert drummer joke here) . I play out with a cover band on the weekends. I was never a full time pro but I do have a basic understanding of musical theory , especially when it come to things like rhythms & time signatures. I have played with several people over the years with little or no understanding of musical terminology. Can't tell you how many times I have said something like " catch the quarter note triplets before the break" & they tilt their head and look at me like my dog does when he hears a strange noise.
Edited by Argo2112 - March 11 2019 at 08:40 |
||
Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 09:46 | |
It's not "he's not as good as I am" it's "he's appalling and acts like he's a genius". It's like someone who drives to work every day suddenly thinking he's Mario Andretti and then talking about "the roundy wheel turner" to everyone in a tone of mock importance. "Oh yes, and the foot down pedal to make the engine turn about quickly." And it's not just about one person, as this also applies to others. ;-) |
||
|
||
Jeffro
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2163 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 10:05 | |
I certainly know what you're talking about. I've seen it ad nauseam on message boards. Some people will claim to know a lot about a lot of stuff based on little more than cursory glances at wikipedia pages. Thankfully, I don't come across many people in real life that are like that.
|
||
MortSahlFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 01 2018 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 2932 |
Posted: March 01 2019 at 10:22 | |
Great post! I'm a musician, and besides the chatter, what is annoying were all those who started to pick up instruments in the early 90s, and then after a handful of years of getting nowhere, they use auto-this and auto-that, instead of realizing it takes a lot of work. A lot of repetition, instead of putting it under the bed for 25 years because "it's hard" I started on drums (and later guitar, piano, bass to NOT have to depend on others), but I know less drumming nomenclature than the other instruments I mentioned. I don't care about numbers, I understand how a waltz sounds, but I think its a lot more accurate to tell the piano player to play a diminished chord, or "lower that third a half-step" instead of "gimme something more dark".
|
||
https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition
https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |