The Official 2010 Football & World Cup Thread - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Cactus Choir View Drop Down

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Posted: October 13 2009 at 08:32

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The black hand problem will be solved when South American referees go to Europe and European referees come to South America for the qualifying.

How is it possible that a guy with opposite interests is the referee?

Iván

I think this could still be a problem though. Would Spain be happy with a referee from Mexico for a vital World Cup game? They might still be p*ssed about Cortes. Wink

And as an England fan, given our historical propensity for interering in other people's business, I think we'd struggle to find a truly 'neutral' ref from anywhere. No offence to any Argentinians but I wasn't too happy with having a ref from there when we played Portugal at the last World Cup, and sure enough he took a couple of big decisions that went Portugal's way.

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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: October 13 2009 at 12:28

Cactus Choir wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The black hand problem will be solved when South American referees go to Europe and European referees come to South America for the qualifying.

How is it possible that a guy with opposite interests is the referee?

Iván

I think this could still be a problem though. Would Spain be happy with a referee from Mexico for a vital World Cup game? They might still be p*ssed about Cortes. Wink

I remember a game some years ago in which Perú was fighting for a place with Uruguay and Ecuador,

CONMEBOL decided to place an Uruguayan referee for a game between Perú and Venezuela (who had no chance)...Is this fair?

Normally in the games, 60% of the referees are from Argentina and Brazil and Argentina was not classified, so the referees could decide the fate of their national team helping countries who are not their rivals.

This is absurd. If Europe doesn't want, lets exchange referees from the CONCACAF or Africa if you want, but the CONMEBOL can't send referees from countries who are fightig for a spot.

Ortube was an extreme case, he has admited that the second goal froim Argentina was in offside, but he had doubts so he decided to support the team who attacked......Please, Palermo was more than a meter in offside.

He said thet he thought that the Argentinean penalty was casual, even when the defence had his arm separete from his body and stopped a ball that was going directly to the goal.

There was a penalty in the last second but Ortube decided to finish the game, despite that the rules say that a penalty must be sanctioned and kicked.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 13 2009 at 12:38

el dingo

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Posted: October 13 2009 at 13:03

Stuff like that can be the cause of serious heartbreak. It happens a fair bit at club level here in Europe, where referees can sometimes appear to be biased when the truth is more likely they're just incompetent.

I've seen the highlights of Argentina-Peru and can only agree with Ivan's post (and I'm obviously neutral between those two countries)

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memowakeman View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 16:36

Now I am really looking forward to the Uruguay vs Argentina match, also it would be nice to see Ecuador beating Chile, let´s see.

About the UEFA teams, I am not happy at all with Sweden's elimination, but well, this is footbal soccer.

Follow me on twitter @memowakeman

crimson87

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 17:01

About today's match I just hope the Uruguayeans remember about the many favours we did to them in the last two quailfiers. If it weren't for our team's generosity , an entire generation of them wouldn't even know what a WC is. (Uruguay's last participation in a WC prior to 2002 was in 1990)

Atkingani

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 19:07

Argentina x Uruguay = anti-climax; a boring game controlled by the Argentinian side which ended with a well-deserved goal and win. The game was tough but not dishonest or unfair.

Now, 3 more names got their visas to South Africa: Argentina, Switzerland & Slovakia. Only 10 places to be filled now.

Guigo

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crimson87

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 20:37

If someone expected top notch football , they should know that Argentina vs Uruguay (Or vs Paraguay for instance) are always tough ,physical games.

BTW: Maradona after the match : "The press can suck my c*ck" (With reference to argentinean sports press) Impolite , but well said.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 21:06

crimson87 wrote:

If someone expected top notch football , they should know that Argentina vs Uruguay (Or vs Paraguay for instance) are always tough ,physical games.

BTW: Maradona after the match : "The press can suck my c*ck" (With reference to argentinean sports press) Impolite , but well said.

Do you honestly believe Maradona deserves any credit?

A fourth place with a lot of suffering is too poor for Argentina, you have players of the highest level, Maradona was a great player,. but he's a terrible coach with very little experience.

With the players you have, Argentina should be first, maybe second, but only was saved in the last game.

67% of Argentineans don't want Maradona as Coach, and they are right, with the most expensive team, and with the help of referees as Ortube, your country was at the border of chaos, if it wasn't for an Uruguay without ideas, you may have suffered more.

Maradona is too arrogant for a mediocre coach and I believe he will be removed if you want tob do something at the World Cup.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 14 2009 at 21:07

The T

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 22:15

Great. Ecuador couldn't be in its third consecutive world cup. We don't have good forwards. We suck. And on top of that, the referees did their thing last saturday.

Back to watching the world cup as an spectator...

crimson87

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 22:20

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Do you honestly believe Maradona deserves any credit?

A fourth place with a lot of suffering is too poor for Argentina, you have players of the highest level, Maradona was a great player,. but he's a terrible coach with very little experience.

With the players you have, Argentina should be first, maybe second, but only was saved in the last game.

Maradona is too arrogant for a mediocre coach and I believe he will be removed if you want tob do something at the World Cup.

Iván

I really like to talk about football , and as you said Maradona is a terrible coach. He is arrogant , you are right but he didn't have any kind of experience as a coach and it must have been a lot of pressure to him , besides it's Grondona's fault if he doesn't get on well with Carlos Bianchi to offer him the post.

About your second statement , Argentina has :

A couple of young and great goalkeepers (Ustari and Romero)

Two world class centre backs (Demichelis and Pareja)

The best defensive midfielder in the world: Mascherano

A couple of great strikers : Higuain and Lisandro Lopez

A great Wing: Di Maria

The so called best player in the world : Leo Me$$i (has talent but lacks the GUTS Diego had )

Argentina has the most expensive sum of players? Yes I agree , but Aguero (And this comes from an Independiente supporter) is a just a good player , same goes for Tevez. In fact I thing Farfan and Pizarro are far superior than them.

We lack:

Sidebacks!!!!!! Zanetti is a tremendous player for his age but we need an urgent replacement , same goes for the left sideback , no replacement since Sorin retired

Right and Left Midfielders : Endemic problem for most argentinean teams

Playmakers: Riquelme being the last one , but this position is no longer used in most teams. Lucho Gonzalez was the best player in the portuguese league last 2 seasons but he never had great games in our team.

Honestly I don't have the slightiest Idea of why our players are so expensive. 30 mill euros for Tevez c'mon!!! (Nowadays there wouldn't be enough money in the world to buy Batistuta or Maradona)

The point is , our players are expensive but because they are well sold and there is a market that's willing to pay a big sum of Euros for them. I have seen better teams in 1998 , 2002 and 2006.

As a team , Brazil is far above us because they have finally found a great goalkeeper (Julio Cesar) and a couple of centre backs (Lucio and Luizao). As usual , they have the best sidebacks in the world (Maicon & Dani Alves). They are a much more balanced team now that knows when to play defense and when to go to attack and that's thanks to Dunga. They may not be as strong offensewise as they were lets say 10 years ago , but having Kaka , Luiz Fabiano , Nilmar (great young player) Robinho and Adriano (Not very regular players but really talented) That bunch of players is very dangerous when inspired.

Atkingani

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 22:59

Few to add to what crimson87 said except that I don't trust Mascherano too much (and I'm not a Corinthians supporter btw). On the other side, I still believe that Conca and Ariel Nahuelpan could be tested in the Argentinian team (and I'm not either a Fluminense or a Coritiba supporter) and if Maxi Biancucchi were in a good shape he could be remembered too (and yes, I'm a FLAMENGO supporter

Guigo

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TheCaptain View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2009 at 23:09

Hahaha, Croatia is out and Serbia is in. I have a few friends who will be rather upset.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: October 15 2009 at 10:09

Atkingani wrote:

Few to add to what crimson87 said except that I don't trust Mascherano too much (and I'm not a Corinthians supporter btw). On the other side, I still believe that Conca and Ariel Nahuelpan could be tested in the Argentinian team (and I'm not either a Fluminense or a Coritiba supporter) and if Maxi Biancucchi were in a good shape he could be remembered too (and yes, I'm a FLAMENGO supporter

I agree, Brazil is on another league, but Paraguay and Chile with less are way better than Argentina, because hey both have a proffesional coach and a serious system.

We are out because we have an amateur coach that placed himself before the team and punished the few great players we have.

Argentina placed a name not a coach, Maradona should never had been the coach of Argentina.

Iván

crimson87

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Posted: October 15 2009 at 21:19

I think Maradona should not be a problem to our team if he delegates to Bilardo all the tactical aspects. Diego could be a distraction for the press and the center of attention so the squad could work peacefully.

In the end , the World Cup just lasts a month in which you need the best momentum from each player , no matter how their performance was before. That's something we learned from Corea-Japan WC. Argentina was the best team in the world from 1999 to 2001 and Bielsa is one hell of a coach , however none of that matters when the world cup starts.

ExittheLemming View Drop Down

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Posted: October 15 2009 at 22:16

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I agree, Brazil is on another league, but Paraguay and Chile with less are way better than Argentina, because hey both have a proffesional coach and a serious system.

We are out because we have an amateur coach that placed himself before the team and punished the few great players we have.

Argentina placed a name not a coach, Maradona should never had been the coach of Argentina.

Iván

I wholeheartedly endorse this. Argentina has qualified in spite of Maradona. Given the calibre of players he has at his disposal, failing to finish in the top four slots should take some real incompetence to achieve (but he almost did it)

However, a world cup finals without Argentina would be a diminished competition.

I should like to comment that Dunga the Brazilian coach, despite a comfortable qualification and a Confederations Cup success is viewed with complete contempt by his county's media. Like many romantics, the latter continue to delude themselves that Brazil continue to play free flowing attacking football. They have not played this way since circa 1982 and their subsequent triumphs have all been built on a solid defensive backbone wedded to a lethal counter attacking ability. Yes, they have some of the finest individual players on the planet, but so do Italy (and look at how successful and numbingly sterile they have been)

I don't mind either way, as long as ANYONE knocks the English out, I'll be a happy rodent again.... Wink

Cactus Choir View Drop Down

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Posted: October 16 2009 at 07:46

The seedings for the World Cup play-offs in Europe have been announced today. Russia, France, Portugal and Greece have all been seeded so will avoid each other and play one of Ireland, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Slovenia and Ukraine.

Personally I completely disagree with the idea of seeding the play-offs - if you're only good enough to finish second in your group then you don't deserve favourable treatment and all the teams should start equal. Seedings were brought in half way through the qualifying process and seem to prove that FIFA wants the "big" teams to qualify. I suppose France will generate more income than Slovenia.

I'm an England fan but, being half-Irish, will be hoping Ireland get through - despite the fact that most of the Irish people I know hope England get stuffed at the World Cup! LOL

I'm also really hoping that Russia qualifies, mainly because of Arshavin is a fantastic player who deserves to play on the biggest stage in world football. His performances against Sweden and Holland at the last Euros were sublime and I think he's the most entertaining footballer to watch since Zidane.

Edited by Cactus Choir - October 16 2009 at 08:31

"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"

"He's up the pub"

Luca Pacchiarini View Drop Down

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Posted: October 19 2009 at 14:37

I discovered an excellent channel to watch football games.

Norwich City just scored the equaliser against Leeds.... Good one Canaries :)

let's see the second half

Tony R

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Posted: October 19 2009 at 14:58

Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

I discovered an excellent channel to watch football games.

Norwich City just scored the equaliser against Leeds.... Good one Canaries :)

let's see the second half

This is a thread about World Cup 2010 and qualifying. Wink

Luca Pacchiarini View Drop Down

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Posted: October 19 2009 at 15:14

Tony R wrote:

Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

I discovered an excellent channel to watch football games.

Norwich City just scored the equaliser against Leeds.... Good one Canaries :)

let's see the second half

This is a thread about World Cup 2010 and qualifying. Wink

You'll see the mighty Canaries qualify to World Cup someday

seriously, I thought we could turn this thread in a larger Football thread (is there one?)

Atkingani

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Posted: October 19 2009 at 22:03

Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

Tony R wrote:

Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

I discovered an excellent channel to watch football games.

Norwich City just scored the equaliser against Leeds.... Good one Canaries :)

let's see the second half

This is a thread about World Cup 2010 and qualifying. Wink

You'll see the mighty Canaries qualify to World Cup someday

seriously, I thought we could turn this thread in a larger Football thread (is there one?)

There are dozens of Football threads but this one seems to be the only presently "active"... maybe we should keep this one for the National Teams.

Ah, I remember one thread about the UEFA Champions League but I cannot find it since my search engine does not want to help me!

Here it is:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56593&KW=Champion&PN=5

Edited by Atkingani - October 19 2009 at 22:05

Guigo

~~~~~~