American Politics the 2016 edition |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 08:17 | ||
I will say something .. the one thing I took out of the GOP convention. If one discounts pure entertainment at the spectacle of a dumpster fire of a political convention. No amount of spin can attempt to say that was a good successful convention. It only fell flat at the end when Cheeto Jesus actually delivered a respectable closing speach.
a grudging respect for Ted Cruz... be it principal or just personal politics setting himself up for 2020 (oh yes.. 4 more years..) It was nice to see someone not fall in line out simply of loyalty to their party. though it was still nice to see him booed off the stage.. he is even less likeable than Cheeto Jesus himself.. and that is saying something. See ya in 2020 Ted.. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13148 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 08:27 | ||
Hmmm...which products are you referring to precisely? Given that most American production has been outsourced to Third World Countries, I am not sure your claim holds water. But products actually "Made in America" are very durable and well-crafted. My wife and I go out of our way to purchase American-made products, and find it increasingly difficult to find them. But we've been quite pleased with what we have. For instance, just try try take our Sub-Zero refrigerator and Viking range (both U.S. made) from my wife. She will break your fingers. Since we are on a prog site, as far as musical instruments, I just bought my daughter a Fender Precision jazz bass, and have used American-made Martins, Gibsons and Ovations (the Connecticut factory closed in 2014, unfortunately) for the past 40 years. I have never been disappointed; on the contrary, all my guitars are keepers. Powell flutes? Zildjian cymbals? Steinway pianos? Taylor, Carvin and Rickenbacker guitars? Dean Markley and Elixir strings? Perhaps you are referring to the auto industry? Hmmm...I know the Jeep I drive was made in Ohio, and my wife's Subaru was assembled in Indiana (with engine and other parts from Japan). But since most cars are a hodgepodge of parts from all over the world, I don't know. Got any specifics? |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 08:32 | ||
Rickenbacker... still made in America.. that is why they cost you arms and legs. But god almighty do they sound good
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 09:47 | ||
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 10:27 | ||
Hmm, contrasting your and Dean's views is interesting. We used to have a Ford Fusion (NOT the Fusion sold in America, this was a 1.6 litre hatch). The car was excellent in the beginning but the suspension gave way too soon and there were a host of other (more minor) issues. On top of that, the after sales service was awful and almost single handedly ensured we moved to a Hyundai next. What we say in India is that the best units are deemed export worthy (whether or not they truly are) while the rest is what we make do. Perhaps American companies do the opposite, selling their best to American consumers and exporting the second grade stuff which gives Made in America a bad name. HP still makes good laptops, that I give, certainly my favourite as somebody who can't afford a Macintosh.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 10:39 | ||
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13148 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 10:44 | ||
I wasn't aware the Brits made anything, at least not since Queen Victoria kicked the bucket.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 10:56 | ||
I'm just using a common definition. I disagree that a socialist would believe capitalism should be supported and one's economic goals be confined to equitable distribution. It is of course imperative in the short term, any socialist would agree, but it is only a short term goal. The idea being that Keynesian style reforms cannot solve the inherent contradictions of the capitalist system. |
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 11:05 | ||
Hmmm...which products are you referring to precisely? Given that most American production has been outsourced to Third World Countries, I am not sure your claim holds water. But products actually "Made in America" are very durable and well-crafted. My wife and I go out of our way to purchase American-made products, and find it increasingly difficult to find them. But we've been quite pleased with what we have. For instance, just try try take our Sub-Zero refrigerator and Viking range (both U.S. made) from my wife. She will break your fingers. Since we are on a prog site, as far as musical instruments, I just bought my daughter a Fender Precision jazz bass, and have used American-made Martins, Gibsons and Ovations (the Connecticut factory closed in 2014, unfortunately) for the past 40 years. I have never been disappointed; on the contrary, all my guitars are keepers. Powell flutes? Zildjian cymbals? Steinway pianos? Taylor, Carvin and Rickenbacker guitars? Dean Markley and Elixir strings? Perhaps you are referring to the auto industry? Hmmm...I know the Jeep I drive was made in Ohio, and my wife's Subaru was assembled in Indiana (with engine and other parts from Japan). But since most cars are a hodgepodge of parts from all over the world, I don't know. Got any specifics? My wife does not want to part with her Kitchen Aid mixer. I was trying to figure out if we owned anything made in England. Could not think of anything other than good prog rock music. Edited by timothy leary - July 23 2016 at 11:06 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 13:20 | ||
You've quoted enough definitions on this subject in order to earn a masters, but somehow you fail to realize their futility. However, when you start the next revolution, I'll get my Che Guevara t-shirt out from the chest in the attic. Viva la Revolution! Edited by SteveG - July 23 2016 at 13:25 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 13:24 | ||
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 13:36 | ||
Are you having a laugh! Viking Range and Sub-zero Refrigerator... Seriously? A £10,000 cooker and a £15,000 'fridge. That's like claiming all Italian cars are great because of Ferrari and Lambourgini ... I owned a White-Westinghouse hob and it was a piece of crap. "Made in the USA" is not a marque of quality. and Tim...
My KitchenAid mixer is a terrific piece of kit and well made that's for sure, but it has "Made in China" stamped in the bottom. (...and not all it's cracked up to be though, having owned both I think the Kenwood Chef is better). As Madan suggested perhaps you keep the good stuff for the home market. Odd that of all the negative things I said about the USA, this is the only thing you all pick up on. Sure, you guys are pretty good a making a few non-essential luxury items for home consumption, but that isn't where you earn your 1.5 trillion dollars of exports, $630 billion of which is in manufactured goods (irrespective of where the component parts are actually fabricated)... so no, you're not selling 42 million fricken' Sub-zero 'fridges world-wide. ...and as for counter-attacking British and English manufactured items - good luck with that, we sold off all our manufacturing to USA owned multinationals years ago... most of it going to GE. /edit. PS: I work for an American-owned electronics company.
Edited by Dean - July 23 2016 at 13:40 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 13:44 | ||
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13148 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 13:44 | ||
Yes, but even Marshall is farming out their less expensive lines to Asia (as is the Brit-made Orange amps). Just like Fender with Squier, and their Korean and Mexican plants producing lower-end Strats.
Because I didn't disagree with the other negative things you said, obviously. Edited by The Dark Elf - July 23 2016 at 13:45 |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 13:48 | ||
My HP ProBook is Made in China, my iPad is Made in China, my iPhone is Made in China. And before everyone gets all exited by "designed in USA" Apple products - Sir Jonathan 'Jony' Ive is a Brit.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 13:58 | ||
I'm unqualified to judge - I've only ever owned five cars in my entire life - three German, one British and one Korean... the Brit one was a piece of total and utter crap with something falling off it practically every week (the driver-side window actually fell out while I was driving) however if the brakes had worked when I needed them to I'd still be driving it simply because it was the most fun to drive. I drive a BMW because Hyundai don't sell the car I want in the UK. I still adore the Ford Mustang even though the two later models I have hired in the US seemed to be not as well made as I would liked - just too much hard plastic and not enough refinement for a 21st century vehicle, enjoyable to cruse around in for a couple of weeks but I'd not pay good money to own one.
Edited by Dean - July 24 2016 at 01:43 |
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 14:01 | ||
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 14:35 | ||
Nah. There were people that felt the Republican Party may come to an end after Goldwater's 1964 debacle. Today...his extreme anti government views and opposition to the Civil Rights Act seems, well mainstream. I think things will go as I said long ago: They will continue to lose the Presidency but keep owning Congress. Now dont get me wrong, they can barely hold together as a single party and cant actually get their own budgets passed without Dem help BUT they can keep obstructing. Keep championing themselves as the defenders of freedom and blah blah against that big bad government, holding the line against everything. They were extremely unified when in opposition. Remember...it's not just about the PotUS, the GOP currently owns Congress. Yes, the Senate will likely flip Dem and they will make big gains in the House, but I read the long term outlook for Reps in Congress is good. Republicans also have a strong majority of governorships, and majority of state legislatures. It seems to me the Dems are kind of in trouble....outside the Presidency they are the minority nationwide. |
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 14:45 | ||
You mean the bit about labor camps and such? That ignores the fact that untold numbers of people die worldwide due to lack of access to basic necessities, that the US has imprisoned more people than any other country in the world, that the US government has initiated coups the world over to secure market interests, etc. all directly and indirectly because of capitalist economics. It also ignores the fact that the countries you mentioned have been all harshly critiqued by many people, including those on the left. It is common sense to reject those things of course, but one has to also not blind themselves to the exact same conditions being perpetuated elsewhere.
I am a socialist yes. It hasn't got anything to do with finding a leader though. |
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13148 |
Posted: July 23 2016 at 14:55 | ||
For the record, I didn't pay half of what you suggest for the range and the fridge, although those lines can get ridiculously pricey for very high end models (the ones with the glass doors and ranges with eight friggin' burners). But it was part of my wife's idea of a dream kitchen, and in order to fulfill my dreams ever again, I had to bow to hers. If you know what I mean. And, had you asked, I would have told you not to buy anything with the White-Westinghouse logo affixed to it.
Edited by The Dark Elf - July 23 2016 at 15:04 |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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