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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16969
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 11:42 |
Sorry Jose for the late reply...agree with your comment yesterday about Comey internal struggle. He seems like a very competent guy but like you I felt his face didn't always match his response, as others have noted it sometimes seemed more like he was making the case TO charge.
Aside from the emails though, whoever wins this election is, to me, a new low for American politics. Yes I realize no politician is a Saint and that we've had crooked politics before....not my point. Point is that the entire cycle, from candidates to media to public, it all feels like a new low. Perhaps deserved. When I see the namecalling people throw at those with differing opinions from themselves, I can only conclude we are getting exactly the leadership we deserve.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 11:58 |
Unfortunately the UK can't help here - normally we take something the American's invented, make it better and then sell it back to you. We tried that with your cash-fuelled show-biz & spin approach to politics and look where that's got us
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What?
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 12:01 |
That's why an original should never be tempered with.
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17909
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 12:14 |
Correct me if I am wrong....during the Bengazi hearings didn't Hillary testify that there were no emails sent by her about that and that only one personal device was in use?......Where now the FBI is stating more than one of each was found. She lied to Congress/investigation committee under oath?
I fully feel nothing will come of any of this stuff, but what does the govt do now? Just step aside and take a non judgmental position on her actions? Also heard a report by AG Lynch that she was offered another 4yrs as AG only a few days after her meeting with Billyboy?? LOL
It gets uglier and uglier by the day......I used to say that I am moving back to my Central American home country.....Anybody have empty moving boxes they want to get rid of?
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16969
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 13:03 |
Well Jose, I just watched most of the 4 1/2 hours of Comey's testimony and regardless of how you feel about his ultimate decision, much of it was disturbing. Not only her continual deception and people's yawning acceptance of it, but the security of information she was entrusted with.
I will also disagree with the many who state this was all political theater. Yes a couple of the folks asking questions were grandstanding at times, but most of the Dems and Repubs who asked Comey questions were prepared, civil, and asking questions that the public wants to know (and which the media doesn't provide). The person being questioned parsed occasionally, but generally tried to be helpful and answer. Overall the topic was unfortunate but for informative. The spin from media partisans will now be painful to watch after seeing the actual meeting....hopefully I can avoid it.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17909
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 13:59 |
I don't consider any of it political theater, these are issues that are about national security and how the information was handled or not. A bank teller would be strung by their gonads if they were to give out bank account numbers and information on customers. We entrust these people to handle information properly and regardless of who it is, they should not be running for a govt office. The media and their different view points try to make it theater, sadly they are succeeding.....The media is running these elections.
Bottomline is it is disturbingly clear her actions were beyond unethical behavior, she has not done anything as "President".......yet. But as we judge politicians on their past actions, there is nothing she has done that would make me want to vote for her if I was a Democrat.
It's beyond insane that nothing will come of all this but only a bunch of late night jokes and CNN/Fox/MSN banterings on Sunday morning TV passing judgment that most people will believe is the truth....Insane!
4-1/2 hours brutal!...You are a better man than I am, heck I could barely get thru 30 minutes of DT The Astonishing sheesh!!
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 21:56 |
A great article here. The main thrust is something we've discussed, that Trump is the resurgence of a, white, working class that has been long abandoned, and in a very real way he's a conservative rejection of the policies put in place since Reagan.
This goes more in depth though and is a great history of the GOP and discussion of economic policies that have failed us, especially the working class. Really a superb article, everyone should give it a read.
It also brings up some unpleasant things about US society, something we all knew but was kinda hoping was abating, at least politically. Race is still a major issue, and I don't mean in the ways we know but many many people are still voting, simply, on skin color...and arent just uncomfortable but actually loathe the fact the Democratic Party (and in terms of immigration the GOP too) has become increasingly favorable for minorities. This is sad and disturbing to me, and while there's been a lot of theorizing about where Trump has come from and why, it's hard to swallow the ultimate truth: He's a reflection of what many, I'd say 30-35%, Americans want and feel.
Edited by JJLehto - July 07 2016 at 22:38
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*frinspar*
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 463
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 23:27 |
White supremacist groups have traditionally stayed out of politics because they know no candidate will represent their foundation.
White supremacist groups have publicly endorsed Donald Trump.
At this point of the horrible race we have that should embarrass us all, I'll still take Hillary over the Nazi. She may be driven by the hubris of privilege, but she's not murderously insane.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65417
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 23:30 |
Now he's pissed-off the Jews. God help'im.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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*frinspar*
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 463
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Posted: July 07 2016 at 23:41 |
He's bulletproof where many stupid right-wing American voters are concerned. The bloated, orange, stumpy homunculus said he could go out and shoot someone and not lose his support. And he's absolutely right. There is a frightening base of hate and ignorance driving an influential part of this country. If they weren't there, we wouldn't have Trump as a credible threat to rule as dictator king.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17909
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 08:19 |
I am very glad that the State Dept will reopen the case against Hillary, she needs to be made accountable for her gross negligence of behavior and her total dismissal of responsibility as Sec of State, absolutely not worthy of being on the ballot for President of the US.
Read a report about Trump's recent campaign fund raising efforts reported by his son Eric, I think they raised something like $50million, the surprising statistic is the avg donation value was less than $100.00, speaks volumes for the demographics of who is contributing to Trump's campaign.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 08:36 |
Yeah, I think it's disturbing, at that article points out, that white male support for Obama was 41% and 35% and that 43% of Trump supporters feel "whites are losing out to other races" and 2/3 of white working class voters feel discrimination against their race is a "big problem" We all know racism is still around, obviously, but I always hoped it was becoming less virulent...that ya know people can be uncomfortable, even dislike, but the days of violent ugliness about race were slowly healing. Seems this is not the case at all. Perhaps it is getting better in some cases, white working class voters also loved Bernie, and in some areas they also liked Hillary. But clearly the race (and gender and liberal) issues remain for many.
It's a shame too because I like that working class/labor politics is seeing a resurgence and that people of both left and right persuasions are rejecting their parties elitism and sell out to corporate and wealthy interests, but it disgusts me Trump has done so through racism and hate, pushing anti science and etc to boot.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 08:39 |
Catcher10 wrote:
Read a report about Trump's recent campaign fund raising efforts reported by his son Eric, I think they raised something like $50million, the surprising statistic is the avg donation value was less than $100.00, speaks volumes for the demographics of who is contributing to Trump's campaign. |
It's perhaps not too surprising, like said above he's getting a lot of working class voters, many of the same type of folk who support Sanders, just he is getting the conservative ones. Also I did love how the media's response to Trump's low fundraising numbers were pretty much "lol" Seriously, and the same template was circulated to every website, news article, headline pretty much mocking how badly he did.
I thought we all knew Trump just doesn't bother with fundraising. He doesn't care and doesn't want, and never needed to. I figured if he ever did try, he'd do well...has a very passionate base. Typical sh*t media, and I'm sure they will not say how wrong they were on the matter
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17909
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 09:17 |
Well I think it is a horrid situation that so much money is given to career politicians to help them get elected. I don't believe I have ever donated any money to any politician running for office or ever checked that box on my tax return....LOL!
I agree, I think if Hillary, Bern, Cruz or Rubio had low numbers the media would cry foul with the general public, some would say "guess nobody is supporting them.." Other media types would probably say there is a problem with the general public not giving to politicians, it has become almost a way of life here to donate to a political campaign.....That is the last group I would ever give money to.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66452
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 09:31 |
There is something to be said about spending millions of dollars to get a job that pays between $174k (senators and representatives) and $400k per year (president). On one hand, when ballplayers get paid millions of dollars a year, it is a shame how "little" they get paid...but on the other hand for many of them it is more about the power than it is the pay. That, and they make more in tax savings by changing the law than they do in salary. And honestly, the last 4 years, most of them haven't really earned a dime of what they were paid. Pretty much a useless lot, this bunch of politicians.
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 09:48 |
JJLehto wrote:
Yeah, I think it's disturbing, at that article points out, that white male support for Obama was 41% and 35% and that 43% of Trump supporters feel "whites are losing out to other races" and 2/3 of white working class voters feel discrimination against their race is a "big problem"We all know racism is still around, obviously, but I always hoped it was becoming less virulent...that ya know people can be uncomfortable, even dislike, but the days of violent ugliness about race were slowly healing. Seems this is not the case at all. Perhaps it is getting better in some cases, white working class voters also loved Bernie, and in some areas they also liked Hillary. But clearly the race (and gender and liberal) issues remain for many. |
Yes, I too am concerned about how under-represented white males are in this country ...
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17909
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 10:19 |
rushfan4 wrote:
There is something to be said about spending millions of dollars to get a job that pays between $174k (senators and representatives) and $400k per year (president). On one hand, when ballplayers get paid millions of dollars a year, it is a shame how "little" they get paid...but on the other hand for many of them it is more about the power than it is the pay. That, and they make more in tax savings by changing the law than they do in salary. And honestly, the last 4 years, most of them haven't really earned a dime of what they were paid. Pretty much a useless lot, this bunch of politicians.
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What gets me is after 4-8yrs in office some of these senators and representatives come out as millionaires......How does that happen?
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zappaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: flyover country
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 10:55 |
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20642
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 12:14 |
Catcher10 wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
There is something to be said about spending millions of dollars to get a job that pays between $174k (senators and representatives) and $400k per year (president). On one hand, when ballplayers get paid millions of dollars a year, it is a shame how "little" they get paid...but on the other hand for many of them it is more about the power than it is the pay. That, and they make more in tax savings by changing the law than they do in salary. And honestly, the last 4 years, most of them haven't really earned a dime of what they were paid. Pretty much a useless lot, this bunch of politicians.
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What gets me is after 4-8yrs in office some of these senators and representatives come out as millionaires......How does that happen? |
God bless America.....
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65417
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Posted: July 08 2016 at 14:54 |
ClemofNazareth wrote:
Yes, I too am concerned about how under-represented white males are in this country ... |
Right on. Every time a "minority" ~ a person of color, gay, transgender, or now a white-ass farmer in Kentucky ~ says or does something good, we all win. That's the point, and we've known that in the US for decades, it's just taken awhile to make it real (and by the looks of that photo we still have a long way to go). And I'll tell ya something else-- when Congress and the Justice Dept and the Whitehouse are filled with brown gender-bending multilingual immigrants, it will be both a step forward and a whole new kettle of problems to deal with. That's just how it works. Frankly when it comes to progressive humanism, it's the rest of the world that's been catching up with us.
Edited by Atavachron - July 08 2016 at 14:55
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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