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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2005 at 20:15

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

You have ruin this topic

words are empty

It doesn't get funnier than that. Any time I see a post that does nothing but complain about another post being useless it tickles my deepest sense of absurd irony. Who says the French have trouble with humor?  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:04
Sorry james lee
this was not for you, but to the others who turn the "mystical" thread started by selling echoes into an intellectual discussion, much more earth-to-earth.
That's why i said "words are empty"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:50

I truly think that music is the answer to the dilemma posed by selling echoes.

It comes with the caveat that the listener needs to be selective in his/her choice of music - but simply having joined this discussion forum means that you've already made the right decision

Of all art forms, only music physically touches you; in the form of sound waves. This has been proven to affect people biologically in terms of the chemical reactions the waves promote.

Science aside, and back to the more mystical realms, simply focussing on the ears when listening to music - ie listening in a darkened room with the volume up - can transport you into a deeply personalised dream world. Here, unlike with psychedelic drugs, it is possible to focus on things that are important to you, draw your own conclusions - and remember it.

This does not have to be a solitary activity either, as the right kind of music as background can promote conversations on deep levels. I have enjoyed many such conversations whilst listening to "Selling England..." for example. Whether such conversations are consequential or not is largely irrelevant, but having them frequently seems to assist the brain in focussing on what is important to the individual and the group to which he/she belongs.

It is but a short step from focussing the brain to having ideas, and a short step from there to acting upon those ideas - given motivation and energy. If you think, for example, that the human race is on it's way to self-destruction, then focus on what you can do to stop it - or at least help slow down the processes. If everyone did that, then maybe, just maybe, the madness would stop.

Of course, such "fireside" conversations are nothing new or revalatory - and work best with plentiful supplies of whiskey and "smoke" - but when teamed up with good music; Man! There are few things in life that are more enjoyable!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2005 at 14:14
Music is the nicest of the artforms.
Epic.
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 01:53
oliver: sorry, forget I said anything. I'm one of those idiots who thinks every word is addressed to me specifically.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 04:46
Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

oliver: sorry, forget I said anything. I'm one of those idiots who thinks every word is addressed to me specifically.


No, you don't have to apologize
this is me who's an idiot to be so brusque
you're kind



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 04:47
Certified, i agree with you that music is the best art which touch the soul directly
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 14:33
Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:

Music is the nicest of the artforms.


I dont think there is a nicest or a worst form of art (although i dislike "conceptual artists" like ol' charley manson, or that canadian dude who drank his own diahrrea a little while ago, or the other canadian guy who goes around spraying blood at things, and getting the governer general's award for art.) but art is expression of the soul, and when you can identify with it your moved be it music painting sculpture literature. I love it all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 17:07

Expression of the soul, that are the words that have been used to diminish art to something meaningless.

Art is about OTHERS. You don't just perform an art to satisfy your own desires, that would be unartful. Art is about making the world more beautiful, for the sake of beauty, other people, divinity, or the concept itself.

Music is by far the best artform to do this.

Epic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 18:05

I would think that selfish art can be beautiful too - since every soul is different, it can be fascinating to look inside and witness an individual soul - to appreciate the good bits along with the bad.

When I perform, it generally is from a selfish perspective - I would love to think that I was benevolent enough to be attempting to create something amazing in order to enrich other's lives, but generally I don't.

Maybe it's just me, but when I perform music I've written, it's generally with a sense of "This is the music I've been working hard to create, I'm performing it to the best of my abilities and loving every second simply for the sake of recreating my music. Your positive feedback is a real ego-stroking bonus, but the bar is behind you if you don't like it!

I hope they charged the dog..."

I think that music that can be perceived as coming from the depths of the soul is the most profound and moving.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2005 at 02:17

That's true- that's why total strangers can feel so connected to musicians, because they seem to share an understanding, something deep and personal. Then you find out they didn't even like that song when they wrote it... 

The dark side of that is: no matter how positive the feedback, no matter how many external sources praise you, an artist can still be dissatisfied with what they've done. I think that's the root of why so many greats burn out or blow themselves away one way or another.

The beauty in the artist's head is constantly filtered by the limitations of expression...and not always due to lack of proficiency; the mechanics of expression impose forms upon raw inspiration. What will music be like when we can extract the essence directly from the pure energies of the inner self?

I'd imagine that my soul's soundtrack is pretty similar to the incidental music of Wile E. Coyote cartoons.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2005 at 13:13
Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:

Expression of the soul, that are the words that have been used to diminish art to something meaningless.

Art is about OTHERS. You don't just perform an art to satisfy your own desires, that would be unartful. Art is about making the world more beautiful, for the sake of beauty, other people, divinity, or the concept itself.

Music is by far the best artform to do this.

I'm afraid i've most likely known a lot more artists in my lifetime than you have, and it isnt about OTHERS. It's about baring yourself to others, it's about creating something to satisfy an urge you have to share what you feel with the rest of the world.

Also there are the artists who work on the muse level, the ones who suddenly have inspiration work as if possesd and when finished feel as if they were just a vessel for what was just created. This is common among artists.

Then there are "craftsmen" or as i call them... whores, who exploit a talent they have simply to make stuff that other people like or would like to buy, with no expression of the self, with no spiritual experiance.

Look, my family owned an art gallery, i still talk with many real artists, onese who make a living out of it, ones who get government contracts to create sculptures or paintings, or get hired to make huge murals for large companies. My mother is one of these (and also a goldsmith). True art is all about being absorbed in the self, but letting others share in it. Ifyou had it your way, art would still only be about painting murals of jesus like it was hundreds of years ago, carefullly tailored for the publics approval. and you say self expression is detremental to art.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2005 at 15:37

I think there's a middle ground or combination of the two extremes.

The desire for self-expression is a selfish desire, but it requires someone else to actually fulfil (or it's not expression- you can't express yourself to yourself, just as you can never sneak up on yourself ).

While there are certainly artists who can exist without feedback, and performers who are only concerned about how the audience responds, most music-makers are somewhere in between the two.

One of the important things about rock and roll is that it straddles the middle ground between a personal statement and a public experience. Any performer will tell you that the difference between a good night and a great night is not how the band plays, but how much the audience got into the show.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2005 at 16:41

indeed, I've always found that when the band plays well, the audience get it, if the audience gets it, the bands just gets better again - it is the wonderful thing about music, the symbiosis between players and audience.

Granted the players are always ultimately writing and playing for themselves (and the chicks ) but when an audience responds and you and your band can rise to meet that expectation - that's as good as it gets, as good as sex!

Of course if the audience is restricted to a drunk, a janitor and a barman then all the 'rawk and roll's!!! and 'hello cleveland's' in the world won't get your fire started

Hell, why do you think all actors (such a self-regarding lot) want to be rock stars, the immediacy  and enormity of the connection appeals to their super-size egos

On the other points about artists and their motivations - any artists (musicians, painter, writers etc) do what they do simply to satisfy their creative urges. most of 'em couldn't not write or paint, it is their way of making sense of reality and of expressing their view of it. And the expression of their creativity was purely selfish. Sure there was some need to have the approval of others for what they did, but the good ones just couldn't not create. it was like breathing to them, completely natural.

It's when the desire to please overrides the desire to create that the problems begin....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2005 at 17:59

Art is a medium of sharing yourself and letting others identify themselves in you, it is selfish and if it isnt and not some testament to something you love (which is still selfish as far as im concerned) then it probably isnt real art. It's a craft or a trade, there is a distinction.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2005 at 13:26

As Mcluhan once said, 'The medium is the message'. In other words, any form of expression(the medium) is a direct link into the mind and thoughts of the artists(the message).

This transcendant nature of art is what I find so appealing about it! We can also say that true artists create art not for the sake of appeasing an audience, but merely to express themselves.

Sun Tsu said: To fight and conquer in your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tsu: The art of War
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2005 at 17:22
I'm reminded of "Annie Hall".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2005 at 17:59

Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

I'm reminded of "Annie Hall".

 

Wait a minute James I have Marshall Mcluhan right here and he says your memory about him is wrong.

 



"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2005 at 18:08
Originally posted by arcer arcer wrote:

indeed, I've always found that when the band plays well, the audience get it, if the audience gets it, the bands just gets better again - it is the wonderful thing about music, the symbiosis between players and audience.

Granted the players are always ultimately writing and playing for themselves (and the chicks ) but when an audience responds and you and your band can rise to meet that expectation - that's as good as it gets, as good as sex!

 

I agree 100%, Arcer.  I remember seeing the Black Moon tour for ELP (1992 or 3?) and they were just going through the motions for the first 4 songs or so. Very little energy.  The audience was polite but no one had left their feet yet and we were waiting for that spark anything to say yeah this was what it was like 15 years ago. Then Emerson sat at the piano and started playing his solo pieces. (I know one was Close to Home and the other was, I think, Creole Dance.)  He was just on fire and after two standing ovations he just went nuts on stage and gave a great performance for the rest of the concert.  The other members picked up on it and joined in with him.  But just that on click between artist and audience sparked a great show out of what was turning into a mediocre one.



"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 11:05
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

I'm reminded of "Annie Hall".

 

Wait a minute James I have Marshall Mcluhan right here and he says your memory about him is wrong.

 

Don't you wish life was really like that?

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