American Politics the 2016 edition |
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 08:24 | ||
Speaking of which, the anti-capitalist amendment was passed by the Green Party's national committee! http://gp.org/cgi-bin/vote/propresult?pid=835
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 08:34 | ||
I am aware of that theoretical distinction but I am not sympathetic to theory because paper ideology, sorry to be blunt, is only cheap talk. In practice, even countries which were governed by parties that identified themselves as communist, like Russia and China, did not go the whole hog to fulfill the strict definition of communism and instead stopped with nationalised control of means of production. Good thing, because workers didn't have to directly bear the losses from the inefficient Russian state. That aside, even countries with stronger govt intervention (vis a vis USA or UK) like France haven't gone the whole hog with completely abolishing private ownership of means of ownership. And you absolutely can have both private and public ownership if you are not beholden to ideological dogma. To say social democracy is a right wing ideology is as far fetched as the view held by libertarians that America has not been a capitalist nation for a long time (long time meaning not since the advent of Progressivism in the early twentieth century). When you start redistributing income in some form or the other, you are already leaning left. The question is only of how leftist. The mixed economy/welfare state compromise of the post WWII years was an excellent one. Too bad the OPEC spike gave an opportunity for Friedman & Co to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 10:05 | ||
50 dead in a mass shooting here in FL.
Hopefully this will not help Trump (if it's proven that the shooter is linked to jihadist terrorism)
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 10:51 | ||
My thoughts exactly. |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 10:56 | ||
Raff was just wondering the same thing. Not surprised. Again.. I think you sort of have to be here to experience it.
Did it really make a difference Teo who did it. I will say for the umpteeth time... 20 children.. let me emphasise that... 20 children... tragic is this is... I think this nation expects these things to happen. If 20 children...umm.. let me reiterate that 20 beautiful innocent children.. could not move this country to deal with its internal problems regarding gun violence.. this will not either. Oh sure the immigrant/foreigner/muslim haters that is his core will hate even more. Most will say... what can you do. It is the reality we live under.. and have for.. god has it been THAT long... 15 years now. It is the reality of life.. and the only way to combat it is to become a police state. A fascist nation. No one wants that and gun violence.. domestic terrorism is the price we will have to pay for it. Help him? Nah... plus from what we have seen of Trump... do you really think he's smart enough to exploit this (and he will try) without reminding people why he is completely unsuited, both in temperment and in the reality of the world to do so without alienating still more voters. I doubt it. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:12 | ||
It's going to be probably more a hate crime against LGBT.
The same hate that the Republicans and Trumpists and Fox News encourage.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:14 | ||
Right out the gate you want to demonize Trump as if he pulled the trigger.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:23 | ||
Let it not be say we are not fair here... I'll eat my hat is this guy was wearing a 'Make America great' button on his jacket.... I'll give up my paycheck and donate it to Trump if wrong. But I'd take the bet that this guy was not a registered Republican. Though I do remember the day of the Murrah Bulding bombing (like one could ever forget that )... it was made clear to all the muslim/middle eastern students to NOT leave home or the campus and stay indoors. I saw with my own eyes picktrucks full of good ol' boys carrying guns hitting the road looking for the 'middle eastrner' said (immediately afterwards) to have done it. It is early... I guess the guy was an Afghan immigrant.. I don't think the target a coincidence. Perhaps he made it a point to wage his private war against America by striking out against sinners and god-forsaken... or perhaps he was gay himself, not even a practicing Muslim, and just hit back.. for whatever reason. What reason did any of those mass shooters. Look at the list of worst mass shootings here. Only 2 of the 30 I counted were 'foreigners'. Edited by micky - June 12 2016 at 11:25 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:27 | ||
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:35 | ||
very true... but fair being fair.. I don't think Trump's rhetoric had much to do with this. Though yes, it was my first thought. It is a war out there... the right wing crazies are armed, off their f**king rockers, and having their hate fueled by self serving politicans. Be it government buildings, black churches, abortion clinics, or gay clubs. They have been targets.. they will targets still to come as we wake up and read of the latest mass shooting... Was it applicable here... I tend not to think so but it may not be too early for the press to jump to conclusions.. but it is for us. Edited by micky - June 12 2016 at 11:38 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:39 | ||
^I never blame Trump of anything actually. He's not a cause. He's a symptom.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:42 | ||
oh no.... symptom? Symptom of what?
Racism... intolerance. Come on man.. America has written the book on that from day 1. When politicians throw gasoline on a fire that many have tired to to fight... they cross the line from being a symptom.. to a cause. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:49 | ||
America did not invent racism and intolerance. Religious fanaticism has been around a long long time.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 11:56 | ||
who said anything about inventing it... our young nation was just getting started on the shining path to WASP glory.. when other enlightened societies were going secular.. and eliminating slavery.
We didn't invent it... we just wrote the book on the subject out of hundreds of years of experience. Edited by micky - June 12 2016 at 11:57 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 12:02 | ||
Enlightened societies? Not on this planet.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 12:06 | ||
I feel I am being sucked into a black hole of trying to reason with you Tim.
so lets paint with a big ass brush here.... enlightened in that realizing just because you are black... latino... gay.. muslim....whatever.. that makes not make you inferior. Any less a citizen of this country. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 12:11 | ||
I am not some dream theater fanboy you can badger just name me one enlightened society on the planet. Not looking for reason. Just want the name of this enlightened society you speak of.
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 12:14 | ||
In that case I don't know of any countries capable of claiming enlightenment. There has been tons of racism, sexism, religious bigotry, etc. ever since every country that still exists was formed, and continues to this day. Western societies shouldn't pat themselves on the back for being slightly less oppressive than other places just yet. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 16:01 | ||
Very sad news from Orlando. Best to the families and loved ones involved. Hate to bring it up since it's politicizing the tragedy but well, guess everyone does. This will give Trump, at least temporarily, a boost.
True, he's just using what is out there. Every few years when we have an immigration debate, or when there's a terrorist attack (or simply a vile act done by a muslim) this stuff comes out in full, ugly force. It certainly goes way before Trump and it happens all over the world. It's what has helped give rise to the various racist, right wing populists all over Europe who used to be dormant and fringe. Seems people are reactionary everywhere add difficult times to the mix, and we all know what happens Trump is disgusting for using it and even fanning it, but indeed he's a symptom as you put it. The ugly growth that pops up after there's been some bad stuff brewing below the skin for a long time. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 12 2016 at 16:40 | ||
Well anyone who thinks Clinton isn't smart is truly a damned fool themselves. I never had any doubt about that. Her....I'll say: divisive... campaign, the comments of surrogates, really every step she takes, comment made, action taken is planned and calculated and is very aware of everything she does. God I hope. I hope it doesn't even require 20-30 years. The Ron Paul revolution has made monumental progress (fringe, most people never even heard of him, limited gov was mocked even in the GOP, to now his creation has taken total control of the party) in under 8 years. It's not like Bernie and Warren are solo loons either. The CPC has existed for ages and have always had like 40-50ish members, so the seeds have been there. And many people are very ready for sincere change. BTW this hasn't made any major but a huge amount of ballots in California have not actually been counted yet. There are boxes upon boxes sitting around and this isn't conspiracy...the CA Sect of State noted 3 counties have since flipped to Sanders. Not that he'll win the state, or even if he did somehow it would've made no difference but yeah...yet again there are tons (2.5 million I read) of votes not counted and most have no idea, the few who do brush it aside because lol who cares about the right to vote?
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