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Snow Dog 
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 Posted: May 10 2012 at 05:33 |
 Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
But seriously Dean. That isn't a plot hole but a dodgy premise. |
Who cares what it's called, if a logical inconsistency spoils my enjoyment of a film that's enough... killing an alien with half a glass of water is not a dodgy premise - having the alien survive in a caustic environment for the half-glass of water to kill it is not a dodgy premise. It is.
I love science fiction and will happily suspend belief to be entertained but there are limits.
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But it was a good film until the these revelations.
The major problem I find with most SF on TV or film is that they are not generally written by SF writers.
Edited by Snow Dog - May 10 2012 at 05:37
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Dean
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:07 |
Snow Dog wrote:
It is. |
Who cares what it's called, it is an error. If water was so caustic that half a glass would kill it then the alien would be aggressively damaged by the water in the environment, its skin would be blistered and its respiratory system wrecked within minutes of landing.
Edited by Dean - May 10 2012 at 06:07
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What?
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:29 |
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
It is. |
Who cares what it's called, it is an error. If water was so caustic that half a glass would kill it then the alien would be aggressively damaged by the water in the environment, its skin would be blistered and its respiratory system wrecked within minutes of landing. |
Maybe so if you look it as pure science. But as a film it isn't bad. Maybe it depends on the concentration of water anyway. Lazy science is rife in many films.
But it may not be an error. It may be a "so what"? Maybe he didn't care about hard science.
There's not much point me continuing this until I see it again to be honest. Can hardly remember the thing.
Wasn't Minority Report in this century?
Edited by Snow Dog - May 10 2012 at 06:33
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JJLehto
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:33 |
Yeah Snow Dog, admittedly that is just my personal opinion, as is yours. I admit it wasn't bad just kind of....eh. I guess it's that stereotypical M Night style ( like I said everyone whispering all the time) The acting wasn't the worst part for me, it was the writing. I can't really put it into better words than "cop out" is what the whole thing felt like to me. That's enough signs for now 
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JJLehto
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:34 |
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Minority Report!
Now that was a movie I enjoyed, and actually more than I expected :O
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:34 |
JJLehto wrote:
Yeah Snow Dog, admittedly that is just my personal opinion, as is yours.
I admit it wasn't bad just kind of....eh. I guess it's that stereotypical M Night style (like I said everyone whispering all the time)
The acting wasn't the worst part for me, it was the writing.
I can't really put it into better words than "cop out" is what the whole thing felt like to me.
That's enough signs for now
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The cop out was deliberate though. Most of his later films seem to end kind of........lame? It's a kind of statement. Have you seen The Happening?
Edited by Snow Dog - May 10 2012 at 06:35
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Dean
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:37 |
Who cares how hard the science is, if the film uses science to kill the alien then the whole plot revolves around science so no one should complain when people pick holes in that science. It would have made more sense (and perhaps even a better film  ) if the aliens could be killed by kindness.
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What?
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:45 |
Dean wrote:
Who cares how hard the science is, if the film uses science to kill the alien then the whole plot revolves around science so no one should complain when people pick holes in that science. It would have made more sense (and perhaps even a better film ) if the aliens could be killed by kindness. |
I'm not complaining. Just making an argument that it is quite a good film despite the flaws.
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JJLehto
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:45 |
Snow Dog wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Yeah Snow Dog, admittedly that is just my personal opinion, as is yours.
I admit it wasn't bad just kind of....eh. I guess it's that stereotypical M Night style (like I said everyone whispering all the time)
The acting wasn't the worst part for me, it was the writing.
I can't really put it into better words than "cop out" is what the whole thing felt like to me.
That's enough signs for now
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The cop out was deliberate though. Most of his later films seem to end kind of........lame? It's a kind of statement. Have you seen The Happening?
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Oooo...yeah I did see that. I thought it was horrendous, though it was humorous. Humorous in it's ridiculous fashion. I guess that could be man...I've heard some say The Happening was a gag, like purposely bad but IDK... If you're right then guess I'll just chuck it up to "he's not my thing"
Edited by JJLehto - May 10 2012 at 06:46
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:47 |
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Yeah the happening was....odd...started fine....but again....no answers. No rhyme or reason. But that isn't the point. But yeah...people seem to love or hate is films. Which is good I think. He still gets bankrolled. For how much longer I wonder?
Edited by Snow Dog - May 10 2012 at 06:48
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Jim Garten
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:58 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Who cares how hard the science is, if the film uses science to kill the alien then the whole plot revolves around science so no one should complain when people pick holes in that science. It would have made more sense (and perhaps even a better film ) if the aliens could be killed by kindness. |
I'm not complaining. Just making an argument that it is quite a good film despite the flaws. |
Science fiction = fictitious science? 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Dean
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 07:04 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Who cares how hard the science is, if the film uses science to kill the alien then the whole plot revolves around science so no one should complain when people pick holes in that science. It would have made more sense (and perhaps even a better film ) if the aliens could be killed by kindness. |
I'm not complaining. Just making an argument that it is quite a good film despite the flaws. |
Then you are replying to the wrong posts.
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What?
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 07:45 |
No, but I don't really regard it as an SF film. More of a mystery.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 07:46 |
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Who cares how hard the science is, if the film uses science to kill the alien then the whole plot revolves around science so no one should complain when people pick holes in that science. It would have made more sense (and perhaps even a better film ) if the aliens could be killed by kindness. |
I'm not complaining. Just making an argument that it is quite a good film despite the flaws. |
Then you are replying to the wrong posts. |
I don't understand that.
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jampa17
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 11:46 |
JJLehto wrote:
Awww Jampa you're better than that man! Don't pull the "we're heathens" thing.
You're above that dude.
Also positive message is a nice way to avoid saying Christian I guess? Why hide it? Be proud of it.
Anywho, I loved "The Green Mile" How's that for a movie with a positive message, and I'd say far better done?
Not to derail:
Signs was just poorly acted and written.
I wasn't gunna bring this up but:
Water kills em. It burns the aliens to the touch.
Yet they could survive in our atmosphere???
Also everyone whispering doesn't make it scary or tense, just means I need to turn the volume up to 75 to hear
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First: I don't know what is heathens... secondly, NO! I'm not saying christianity because in the film there's no message to it. Maybe Dean's right, maybe it's not SF but fiction science... And that's not a problem at all.
But getting back to your post, I hate the Green Mile and really don't care about it's message. I'm a Catholic and I do identify on that "believers" thing in Signs but that's nothing to do with a good movie that makes you wonder for half and hour about what the hell it's happening. I don't know, but Gibson and Phoenix are great actors and that movie probes it and the claustrophobic sense towards the end is also a plus. Even the score made by James Newton Howard is really really great.
Isn't it a matter of taste then?
Edited by jampa17 - May 10 2012 at 11:49
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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stonebeard
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 11:51 |
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I'll get back to you after Prometheus comes out.
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jampa17
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 11:54 |
Dean wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
There's no plot wholes, |
 "Hey let's invade a planet whose surface is 75% water, whose creatures are 60-80% water, whose atmosphere is high in humidity and where it precipitates a lot because there is a kid having a birthday party in one of the wettest countries down there I really want to spook - and let's go without protective clothing or hand weapons and make sure we don't know how to kick down flimsy doors because bombarding these critters from space just isn't sporting and since we have claws for hands making and using such weaponry is a tad more difficult than constructing and flying inter-stellar craft. And since we can navigate the vast distances of space to an isolated water filled planet we had best hope that the planet is populated by a semi-advanced life-form that has evolved sufficiently to allow arable farming so our plan of marking their fields with navigation aids works because if these monkeys are still living in trees then we might as well just go to Mars or something"
"Now, now, Barry, don't be so negative, we can get Mel Gibson's autograph..."
"...or flip him the bird."
"I don't think that is advisable."
No plot holes at all. |
Thanks Dean, this post probes why I avoid any career related with science and physics as well as why I stopped been sarcastic in threads.
Still, that's not a hole, I still believe everything matches really great (maybe for those of us that really enjoy miracles -breaking physics laws and everything  -) so I think it's still good.
And I do remember that most 60s and 70s movies doesn't have a good explanation to everything that happened in SF movies and still are taken like Masterpieces of cinema... what about that?
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 12:03 |
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^I agree for the most.
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 12:37 |
Dean wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
There's no plot wholes, |
"Hey let's invade a planet whose surface is 75% water, whose creatures are 60-80% water, whose atmosphere is high in humidity and where it precipitates a lot because there is a kid having a birthday party in one of the wettest countries down there I really want to spook - and let's go without protective clothing or hand weapons and make sure we don't know how to kick down flimsy doors because bombarding these critters from space just isn't sporting and since we have claws for hands making and using such weaponry is a tad more difficult than constructing and flying inter-stellar craft. And since we can navigate the vast distances of space to an isolated water filled planet we had best hope that the planet is populated by a semi-advanced life-form that has evolved sufficiently to allow arable farming so our plan of marking their fields with navigation aids works because if these monkeys are still living in trees then we might as well just go to Mars or something"
"Now, now, Barry, don't be so negative, we can get Mel Gibson's autograph..."
"...or flip him the bird."
"I don't think that is advisable."
No plot holes at all. |
Yup. Pretty much this.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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jampa17
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 13:03 |
Snow Dog wrote:
^I agree for the most. |
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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