Indukti- Idmen, 2.83 rating!?

harmonium.ro wrote: Epignosis wrote: Please tell me where this "objectiveness" comes from when rating music.  I get so tired of hearing people "rating albums objectively."  That's impossible.  It's impossible, yet you do it very well so often. Epignosis wrote: I refuse to give a mediocre rating because a majority like an album.  That, I'm sorry to say, is pandering and silly.  I will never do it.  Images and Words will always be a two star album.  So will ELP's debut.  I will not alter my opinion because of mass appeal.  That's what the pop music industry seeks. I'm not sure but I feel like this is a response to my Images And Words example from a little above. If so, you didn't get it right; what I said was that I really think it has certain merits, even though I hate it. I wouldn't rate it mediocre because the majority likes it, but because of those merits. If you didn't refer to my post, then please ignore this comment. Epignosis wrote: Objective: Rick Wakeman plays the piano at 4:55 on the second track. Subjective: Rick Wakeman's piano playing on the second track is brilliant. No one can argue with the first statement (unless it's untrue)- it's a matter of fact. Anyone can (and will) argue with the second statement.  It's a matter of opinion. I'm surprised you fall in this very simple yet effective logical trap. See, that quote from you above it's only your opinion on this fact. If opinions don't hold any objective truth, I can simply dismiss your opinion as just that - your opinion. If I am to accept the objective way you present us with this belief of yours, then I can't accept your dismissal of opinions as non-objective. It's like you are saying "No opinions held any objective truth, including this one" A logical dead end to an otherwise interesting argument. (BTW this paradox is similar to "All generalizations are false, including this one").

I'm sorry, but it would help me tremendously if you would point directly to your antecedents when using pronouns (or saying "that quote from you above").

Can you please explain what you didn't understand? Myself I don't understand what exactly is the problem.

what an interesting thread....  and a surprise to see me and my review tossed into the mix.


would have been nice to mention the only 1 star reviews I did.... 2 of them... both albums I adore.. and listen to, and find much more interesting than much of the sh*t that many of you rate as 5 star albums.. .simply because you like it.

pssst....  words of wisdom for those who would actually like to 'review' albums rather than get your lonely voice out in the ether of the internet.   People simply don't care if you like an album or not... I know I don't and many of the people I have met over the years here do not either.  Raff and  I have a wall of several 1000 prog albums.. and we have listened to every one of them.   I review, and wish more did.. with an objective eye not to whether you like an album or not... but where that albums fits in the grand scheme of prog.  Don't confuse what you like...with what is best...  and what you do not like... with what sucks. 


great topic whoever started it...   If people don't want objective reviews... then all they do is seek reviews that validate their feelings.  Screw that...  you are prog fans..  supposedly intelligent music listeners... use your heads.

For the review Dean pointed out.... I HATED that album.. but in it's funny way... that made it a masterpiece of Prog Metal... . it stood for everything I hate about prog metal.  For those who love those aspects.. and there are a lot... it is a masterpiece.. and deserves the acclaim it gets.


Edited by micky - August 20 2009 at 20:08

hahahha...   Robert.....a vain person might tell you of years of PM's received from those who appreciate that style of reviewing.   

beats the old Yes v Genesis debate anyday

thanks Jim...  miss you too brother....

When I bought SUSAR online, on the first listen I had a, well Peak moment......I am now listening to Idmen and all I can say is...it's better than SUSAR. They have matured. It's like Unexpect, not everyone is going to enjoy this. But if this is up your alley, this may be the pinnacle. Goth, complex, heavy, OMFG.

Wow!!   Jay and John Davie's excitement made me listen to their myspace tracks.....and yowsa, they really do blow SUSAR out of the water.   Sounds like a band on the upswing to be sure!! 

Adding to list.......

Negoba wrote: 2009 has been a great year. Nothing touches this. The best prog goth album ever made. Tiamat, Paradise Lost, crying.....crying.....

Actually, Peter Gabriel called me just now and said he couldn't stand Idmen.  Worst thing he ever heard. 

These guys are as heavy as Gojira almost....and every bit as interesting.  Reminds me of the first time I heard "Mars to Sirius" and the jaw dropped.  

micky wrote: what an interesting thread....  and a surprise to see me and my review tossed into the mix. would have been nice to mention the only 1 star reviews I did.... 2 of them... both albums I adore.. and listen to, and find much more interesting than much of the sh*t that many of you rate as 5 star albums.. .simply because you like it. pssst....  words of wisdom for those who would actually like to 'review' albums rather than get your lonely voice out in the ether of the internet.   People simply don't care if you like an album or not... I know I don't and many of the people I have met over the years here do not either.  Raff and  I have a wall of several 1000 prog albums.. and we have listened to every one of them.   I review, and wish more did.. with an objective eye not to whether you like an album or not... but where that albums fits in the grand scheme of prog.  Don't confuse what you like...with what is best...  and what you do not like... with what sucks.  great topic whoever started it...   If people don't want objective reviews... then all they do is seek reviews that validate their feelings.  Screw that...  you are prog fans..  supposedly intelligent music listeners... use your heads. For the review Dean pointed out.... I HATED that album.. but in it's funny way... that made it a masterpiece of Prog Metal... . it stood for everything I hate about prog metal.  For those who love those aspects.. and there are a lot... it is a masterpiece.. and deserves the acclaim it gets.

You know, I got the feeling when reading this it was uncannily similar to the contrary polemic of the Ian Penman/Paul Morley axis from Sounds UK music spreadsheet circa 79. (That's both a compliment and a criticism)
Yes, approving only of reviews that validate your prejudices would tie your musical appreciation to a parked car, but this is the cynical perspective of journalism - why let good music get in the way of dismantling the irrational wonder that great art is capable of stirring within all of us ? (Jeez I know, that sounded a tad w**ky) I do appreciate your interest is that of the 'bigger picture' and where the music sits in the historical framework of the 'progressive tradition', but you come across here as depicting yourself as the 'watcher of the skies.'
The 'objectivity' you cite is really only tantamount to a deficit of credulousness (which I admire and applaud, and let's face it, long exposure to the earnest semantics of hippies is begging for some abrasive relief) but I know from my own reviews that despite my best attempts to appear even handed and non-partisan, I am really just writing about MYSELF, you cant separate the knower from the known....

I'll get me coat...