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horsewithteeth11 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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 Posted: February 04 2009 at 16:12 |
 Slartibartfast wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Another superficial PR
AP - President Barack Obama on Wednesday imposed $500,000 caps on senior executive pay for the most distressed financial institutions receiving federal bailout money, saying Americans are upset with "executives being rewarded for failure."
I surely agree that no one should be rewarded for failure. Furthermore, I believe they should be thrown out because of their failure. That would effectively put a $0 cap on their pay. Now if you leave those executives where they are and pay them 20 to 40 times less (on average) how do you expect them to perform? And if you try to find a replacement, a real sharp guy to run a Citibank-type operation, he must be a real enthusiast to take a pay which may be potentially less than that of some of his employees.
Nice try. |
Here's the thing, all the lavish pay and bonuses are being justified saying that they need to attract and retain the best. Where the hell else are these guys going to go? Executives overseas get paid much less. Time to consider offering them those jobs. And why aren't these guys getting tossed out for their failures? I expect them to perform as well as everyone else lower down on the economic ladder who are seeing their wages and benefits slashed.
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I agree that these guys shouldn't be awarded for failure as has already been mentioned, but come on, you might have just said one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in this thread. If you want the American economy to improve, you need to keep jobs in this country, not send them overseas. Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you said.
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 16:24 |
"I screwed up". When did an American president utter those words last time ? President Nixon after Watergate ? I am frankly impressed by Barack Obama. OK, he did screw up, but he is owning up to that. I do trust people who owns up to their mistakes. These are called H U M A N B E I N G S.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65514
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 16:39 |
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Nixon never said he screwed up..on the contrary, he blamed everyone but himself-- got I hate that oily, miserable, psychotic, twisted, unethical, unprincipled, deranged, narcissistic, desperate, bizarre, creepy, vapid, egregious, horrible little man. How did anyone not see through him, especially by '73 ?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 16:40 |
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Another superficial PR
AP - President Barack Obama on Wednesday imposed $500,000 caps on senior executive pay for the most distressed financial institutions receiving federal bailout money, saying Americans are upset with "executives being rewarded for failure."
I surely agree that no one should be rewarded for failure. Furthermore, I believe they should be thrown out because of their failure. That would effectively put a $0 cap on their pay. Now if you leave those executives where they are and pay them 20 to 40 times less (on average) how do you expect them to perform? And if you try to find a replacement, a real sharp guy to run a Citibank-type operation, he must be a real enthusiast to take a pay which may be potentially less than that of some of his employees.
Nice try. |
Here's the thing, all the lavish pay and bonuses are being justified saying that they need to attract and retain the best. Where the hell else are these guys going to go? Executives overseas get paid much less. Time to consider offering them those jobs. And why aren't these guys getting tossed out for their failures? I expect them to perform as well as everyone else lower down on the economic ladder who are seeing their wages and benefits slashed.
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I agree that these guys shouldn't be awarded for failure as has already been mentioned, but come on, you might have just said one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in this thread. If you want the American economy to improve, you need to keep jobs in this country, not send them overseas.
Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you said.
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Kind of missed my point there, as long as we are sending working people's jobs overseas, why not give the executives the same treatment and see how much they like it? Of course the more sensible thing to have done would have to have a tax policy that made it financially impractical for companies to ship jobs overseas in place many years ago. Unfortunately, the barn door's been open for way too long and we are now paying the price across the board, not just in the working class sectors.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 20:14 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Another superficial PR
AP - President Barack Obama on Wednesday imposed $500,000 caps on senior executive pay for the most distressed financial institutions receiving federal bailout money, saying Americans are upset with "executives being rewarded for failure."
I surely agree that no one should be rewarded for failure. Furthermore, I believe they should be thrown out because of their failure. That would effectively put a $0 cap on their pay. Now if you leave those executives where they are and pay them 20 to 40 times less (on average) how do you expect them to perform? And if you try to find a replacement, a real sharp guy to run a Citibank-type operation, he must be a real enthusiast to take a pay which may be potentially less than that of some of his employees.
Nice try. |
Here's the thing, all the lavish pay and bonuses are being justified saying that they need to attract and retain the best. Where the hell else are these guys going to go? Executives overseas get paid much less. |
You could not mandate all business to cap their executives' pay by presidential decree. Talent will seek better, more rewarding employment.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 20:21 |
Atavachron wrote:
Nixon never said he screwed up..on the contrary, he blamed everyone but himself-- got I hate that oily, miserable, psychotic, twisted, unethical, unprincipled, deranged, narcissistic, desperate, bizarre, creepy, vapid, egregious, horrible little man. How did anyone not see through him, especially by '73 ?
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Too many epithets... His vanity that's what killed him. If not for that he would have been remembered as a great strategist
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 20:24 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Another superficial PR
AP - President Barack Obama on Wednesday imposed $500,000 caps on senior executive pay for the most distressed financial institutions receiving federal bailout money, saying Americans are upset with "executives being rewarded for failure."
I surely agree that no one should be rewarded for failure. Furthermore, I believe they should be thrown out because of their failure. That would effectively put a $0 cap on their pay. Now if you leave those executives where they are and pay them 20 to 40 times less (on average) how do you expect them to perform? And if you try to find a replacement, a real sharp guy to run a Citibank-type operation, he must be a real enthusiast to take a pay which may be potentially less than that of some of his employees.
Nice try. |
Here's the thing, all the lavish pay and bonuses are being justified saying that they need to attract and retain the best. Where the hell else are these guys going to go? Executives overseas get paid much less. Time to consider offering them those jobs. And why aren't these guys getting tossed out for their failures? I expect them to perform as well as everyone else lower down on the economic ladder who are seeing their wages and benefits slashed.
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I agree that these guys shouldn't be awarded for failure as has already been mentioned, but come on, you might have just said one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in this thread. If you want the American economy to improve, you need to keep jobs in this country, not send them overseas.
Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you said.
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Kind of missed my point there, as long as we are sending working people's jobs overseas, why not give the executives the same treatment and see how much they like it? Of course the more sensible thing to have done would have to have a tax policy that made it financially impractical for companies to ship jobs overseas in place many years ago. Unfortunately, the barn door's been open for way too long and we are now paying the price across the board, not just in the working class sectors.
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Oh, I see what you mean. My bad. Although as for the tax policy thing, the reason companies ship jobs overseas is because, ironically enough, labor costs have become so expensive in this country. Besides restructuring companies themselves, we'd have to restructure the unions in this country, but so many people would be in an outrage over that, and it's not really an issue I want to touch with a 100-foot pole because of how sensitive it would become for some people.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65514
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 20:32 |
IVNORD wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Nixon never said he screwed up..on the contrary, he blamed everyone but himself-- got I hate that oily, miserable, psychotic, twisted, unethical, unprincipled, deranged, narcissistic, desperate, bizarre, creepy, vapid, egregious, horrible little man. How did anyone not see through him, especially by '73 ?
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Too many epithets... His vanity that's what killed him. If not for that he would have been remembered as a great strategist |
sure, a great strategist of deceit and selfishness
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 20:33 |
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only a master of evil, Darth
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65514
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 20:39 |
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^ he wasn't even as appealing, at least Vader was cool
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 20:47 |
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evil and lame, what a combo
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 21:18 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Kind of missed my point there, as long as we are sending working people's jobs overseas, why not give the executives the same treatment and see how much they like it? Of course the more sensible thing to have done would have to have a tax policy that made it financially impractical for companies to ship jobs overseas in place many years ago.
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Can't do that. Protectionism never worked and never will. Capitalism is constantly looking for bigger profits thru lower costs. A tax policy to make the unions more competitive would do
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 21:20 |
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Oh, I see what you mean. My bad.
Although as for the tax policy thing, the reason companies ship jobs overseas is because, ironically enough, labor costs have become so expensive in this country. Besides restructuring companies themselves, we'd have to restructure the unions in this country, but so many people would be in an outrage over that, and it's not really an issue I want to touch with a 100-foot pole because of how sensitive it would become for some people.
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You said it whileI forgot to post my reply.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 21:22 |
Atavachron wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Nixon never said he screwed up..on the contrary, he blamed everyone but himself-- got I hate that oily, miserable, psychotic, twisted, unethical, unprincipled, deranged, narcissistic, desperate, bizarre, creepy, vapid, egregious, horrible little man. How did anyone not see through him, especially by '73 ?
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Too many epithets... His vanity that's what killed him. If not for that he would have been remembered as a great strategist |
sure, a great strategist of deceit and selfishness
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Those were a part of his vanity thing. The man opened China and Russia, and got the country out of Vietnam.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 21:35 |
Well so far Obama has been very unorthodox . . . . which is a very good thing. 
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TheCaptain
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2009
Location: Ohio, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1335
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 22:21 |
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/??
There's a neat little site to keep track of Obama''s promises.
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Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal.
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: February 04 2009 at 22:30 |
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
"I screwed up". When did an American president utter those words last time ? President Nixon after Watergate ? I am frankly impressed by Barack Obama. OK, he did screw up, but he is owning up to that. I do trust people who owns up to their mistakes. These are called H U M A N B E I N G S. |
Even better is the fact that it's really not his fault Daschle didn't pay his taxes. He's just doing what a responsible leader does and taking responsibility for something that happened under his umbrella. The fact that people are making this out to be some sort of proof when Bush spent 5 years lying about a war and blaming every intelligence agency for sh*t he and his cronies just made up is laughable.
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jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: February 05 2009 at 11:46 |
Here's what I've heard from my friends on the right: Obama can do no right because it is impossible to meet his lofty promises. He is doomed to failure.
Friends on the left: Obama can do no wrong, he is the saviour. And if he makes a boo-boo...well, Bush was terrible so we'll just compare the two.
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Signature Writers Guild on strike
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: February 05 2009 at 11:57 |
1800iareyay wrote:
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
"I screwed up". When did an American president utter those words last time ? President Nixon after Watergate ? I am frankly impressed by Barack Obama. OK, he did screw up, but he is owning up to that. I do trust people who owns up to their mistakes. These are called H U M A N B E I N G S. |
Even better is the fact that it's really not his fault Daschle didn't pay his taxes. He's just doing what a responsible leader does and taking responsibility for something that happened under his umbrella
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after Daschle removed his name from consideration because the stink was getting so bad - and the outcry was coming from the left. When the NYT Editorial Board said he needed to withdraw, his goose was cooked.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 06 2009 at 06:58 |
After Geithner's tax problems, Daschle's one too many
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