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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:14 |
Psychedelia wrote:
i can see your point but in practice i think its more likely to lead to a more segregated USA with a less inclusive poliicy towards immigration.
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You know, one of my favorite recent quotes comes from a musician who is more or less reviled here in the frum and that's Yanni (yeah I know, BLAH! But I like his live performances). On the Acropolis concert CD he talks about his encounter with a Space Schuttle astronaut describing how you don't see the dividng lines on Earth from space. And he said "We'd be better off if we would focus more on our similarities than our differences."
Easier said than done of course, but maybe the day that happens will come. When? Who knows?
In the meantime, time for another beer and watch All In The Family!
Edited by marktheshark - June 10 2006 at 19:14
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:15 |
rushaholic wrote:
And concerning other countries on the North or South American continent that think they are American. Well, they are not. They are Colombian, Brazilian, Canadian, Mexican, etc. The United States of America is the only county on the North or South American continent with the word America in the official name of the country. So, we call ourselves American. And d*nm proud of it. Is that so wrong?
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Well to a South American it might be! That's the issue here.There seems to be a sentiment amongst certain citizens of the USA that says "we are Americans we do not need to worry about what other people think and feel". What this shop-keeper has done is offensive.The man is an ignoramus as well as a racist. Most Italians that emigrated to the USA in the 18th and 19th century could not speak a word of English,it takes quite a few generations before an ethnic group fully assimilates after settling.
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:21 |
He is not a racist. I don't even think he is all that prejudiced (the proper word).
The man wants his patrons to speak English. After all, they are in an English speaking country. If they don't want to communicate to him in English, he is inviting them to move on. So what.
I agree that it takes a generation or two to assimilate. That still shouldn't prevent them from trying.
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:28 |
but he isn't just asking that they should try and learn the language he is creating resentment between the two races by turning away immigrants. If he so dislikes them not speaking great English why doesn't he just move?
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:29 |
Tony R wrote:
rushaholic wrote:
And concerning other countries on the North or South American continent that think they are American. Well, they are not. They are Colombian, Brazilian, Canadian, Mexican, etc. The United States of America is the only county on the North or South American continent with the word America in the official name of the country. So, we call ourselves American. And d*nm proud of it. Is that so wrong? | The man is an ignoramus as well as a racist. |
Tony, just how many "races" are there in this world? The talley just keeps growing and I can't keep up!
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:31 |
it depends how you define it, but for the purpose of easy and clear discussion the word is useful
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:32 |
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:33 |
** Bangs head against the wall ** He is not turning away immigrants, nor is he trying to create resentment between any two nationalities. He just wants you to say "Philly cheesesteak" like he says it.
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:34 |
**hits head while whining like the rain man**
This has the same effect.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:35 |
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:36 |
English with an Italian accent, eastern accent, who cares. English.
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7956
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:36 |
rushaholic wrote:
He is not a racist. I don't even think he is all that prejudiced (the proper word).
The man wants his patrons to speak English. After all, they are in an English speaking country. If they don't want to communicate to him in English, he is inviting them to move on. So what.
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He is a real racist and b*stard. Imagine, I'm a tourist and don't speak English. If he refuses to serve me, OK, I'll spend my money in another place.
I don't mean immigrants shouldn't learn the language of the country they live in, they should. Both sides should respect each other.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:39 |
the man speaks the truth. Mutual respect is the way forward.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:40 |
Maybe I am wrong but I have to believe that if, say England or Germany, had an influx of 20 million immigrants (ILLEGALLY) and they refused to learn the local language, I would be willing to bet that there would be a similar reaction. It would be even worse in England: "Le gustaria tener un crumpet con su tea?"
Edited by rushaholic - June 10 2006 at 19:41
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:42 |
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:46 |
i dont know the language but that doesn't mean i'd turn the people away. There are debates on this kind of thing in England and there are those who are very isolationist but i dont think this is the way forward. Remember that immigrants are a great aid to the economy. I think more emphasis has to be put on helping the immigrants to adapt once they've got to the country rather than letting bad feeling ferment
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:48 |
Psychedelia wrote:
i dont know the language but that doesn't mean i'd turn the people away. There are debates on this kind of thing in England and there are those who are very isolationist but i dont think this is the way forward. Remember that immigrants are a great aid to the economy. I think more emphasis has to be put on helping the immigrants to adapt once they've got to the country rather than letting bad feeling ferment
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When they arrive LEGALLY. Those who have come ILLEGALLY are breaking the damn law!
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 21:13 |
cuncuna wrote:
Use drawings. And think about this in terms of a long process. Finally, with a little luck, every language will be just one: ESPERANTO, wich is kind of hard to catch... |
BWHUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Esperanto is never, ever going to catch on. An artificial language is never, ever going to catch on. Zamenhof was not a linguist and it contains far too many mistakes for it to ever become universal. Some other people have imporved it, but Zamenhof spent so much energy publicizingit that Esperanto is the only one that people have ever heard of.
Like it or not, English is the dominant language; and what most of you seem to be forgetting is that businesses in foreign countries profit immensely from tourism, and if the business you are in puts you in regular contact with tourists, then I think it is rude if you don't know some English. And not many people travel to Texas as tourists.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 21:26 |
Please don't call him a racist dismissively. Think about what this guy has been doing. Obviously, no one would get pissed off by just one person not being able to say "philly cheesesteak," so this guy probably had to deal with this repeatedly. Now, some people's tolorance levels are higher than other's and this guy seems like the kind of person not to take much bullsh*t in any form or fashion. He might've tried to accommodate the Spanish-speaking people for awhile, but without a high tolorance level, it wore him down. That doesn't mean he didn't try to accommodate them. Being that he probably was worn down by dealing with people who don't speak his language, he became isolationist with maybe a hint of racism, but I can understand the circumstances leading to why he feels that way. I wish he had a higher level of tolorance, but not everyone's the same.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16892
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 21:30 |
It is extremely unjustified to have something speak you English when you don't know it. I mean how would you feel if you went to a country that didn't speak English that required you to order and do things in that language?
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