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Lord Qwerty 
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 07 2006
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Points: 82
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 Posted: February 13 2006 at 21:45 |
 ken4musiq wrote:
Winter Wine wrote:
Right, i've tried to read down through every post on this thread but I have to reply NOW!!
If there is one thing I HATE when it comes to ELP (or prog itself) is that people call it 'Emotionless', that pisses me off more than I can put into words. Songs like From the Beginning, Trilogy, The Endless Enigma, even Karn Evil 9!! have a LOT of emotion in them, and when I listen to songs like those I can FEEL it, I mean Lake is an exceptional singer, and when he sings certain lines like 'Why do you think I believe what you say, few OF your words ever enter my head', that line actually sends shivers down my spine. It's not as if he's READING is he, he's SINGING!!!! I mean he's not melodramatic, he doesn't over do it, he seems very 'honest' when he sings. And the melodies are just so nice a lot of the time, I love his choirboy like voice, it's beautiful.
To me ELP have always felt like 'An always arguing family', but a FAMILY none the less, I think there is still a lot of love between the guys (Emerson actually said it, that's something) even if they were never in constant agreement.
ELP were one of the first prog bands I got into, the first time I heard Brain Salad Surgery I thought 'Did I just watch a film?!!', It was such a different world. ELP unfortunately did not last as long as other Prog giants, however I feel they gave us two 5 star masterpieces 'Trilogy' and 'Brain Salad Surgery', with three excellent albums before it. They were outrageous yet absolutely magnificent (especially live). It's a shame that the record companies are releasing so many crap boxsets and useless garbage under the ELP name. To me it's a crying shame that they have such a bad reputation, all fuelled by the 'everything must be standard' media. When I bought the Q special edition mag I cannot tell you how delighted I was to see Brain Salad Surgery' in five, I was so over the moon.
Kieth Emerson is as talented as they come and gave it one thousand percent in the early days, I love those lush sounding keyboards on Trilogy, he is one of the only keyboardists to have a sound recognisable within 10 seconds of hearing it. And Palmer, christ, what another major talent, i've never seen such a breathtaking drummer, watch him live, he just looks amazing playing some of those solo pieces.
ELP are in the 'Top 5' because, in their day, they had huge success, they were innovative and stunning, and even if they are not appreciated as much today as they were then, they still DESERVE to be in that 'Top 5'
I apologise for my post being so long, but this is a band that means a lot to me and I feel I should defend them, there are so many people who just slate them for no real reason. And i'll pretty much fight to the death in doing so.
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First of all, you're right.
second of all, who said music necessarily had anything to do with emotion.
Leo Tolstoy and Lord Qwerty agrees 100% with him.
Thirdly, Sorry for the abruptness but I'm listening to the live version of KE #9 and its pretty emotional for me. Forgive me while a dry my eyes. |
Edited by Lord Qwerty
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Lord Qwerty is remarkably pretentious.
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ken4musiq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: February 13 2006 at 21:45 |
Drama... actually one of my favorite Yes albums. A fresh perspective and not so anal to think that something minus Jon Anderson is somehow the less the album. If anything it spotlights the lesser known but highly critical component to the Yessound.... Squire and Howe's backing vocals. With the only critical component.. Squire's bass also highly prominent.. see Tempus Fugit and Does It Really Happen. Downes more modern keyboard sound was a VAST improvement over Wakeman circa Tormato. A hint of what was to come a couple of years down the road. The root of prog..... progressing.....>.
Now you've done it. I feel like going out and buying Drama.
Actually, I think that Anderson really took the reigns after Fragile and maybe the drama that Squire is referring to is the intense drama I associate with Fragile, which really tends to highlihgt Mr S. Just a thought! I could be wrong.
PS I also loved 90125 and of all the Yes shows I've ever seen, it was the one I enjoyed the most. I did not miss Howe though I love him; he left for the money$$$$
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 13 2006 at 22:06 |
ken4musiq wrote:
Drama... actually one of my favorite Yes
albums. A fresh perspective and not so anal to think that
something minus Jon Anderson is somehow the less the album. If
anything it spotlights the lesser known but highly critical component
to the Yessound.... Squire and Howe's backing vocals. With the
only critical component.. Squire's bass also highly prominent.. see
Tempus Fugit and Does It Really Happen. Downes more modern keyboard
sound was a VAST improvement over Wakeman circa Tormato. A hint of what
was to come a couple of years down the road. The root of
prog..... progressing.....>.
Now you've done it. I feel like going out and buying Drama.
Actually, I think that Anderson really took the reigns after Fragile
and maybe the drama that Squire is referring to is the intense drama I
associate with Fragile, which really tends to highlihgt Mr S. Just a
thought! I could be wrong.
PS I also loved 90125 and of all the Yes shows I've ever seen, it
was the one I enjoyed the most. I did not miss Howe though I love
him; he left for the money$$$$ |
Howe left for the money and Yes moved on... Yes moved in a different
direction and I loved 90125. Damned if you do.. damned if you
don't. Some say Yes sold out yet others would have derided the
group for continuing in the same vein of their 70's albums. Can't
please everyone... anyway much like Drama.. just judge the album on
it's merits.. not against albums like CTTE. Sure they don't
compare to it... but what does....
Back to Drama... give it another listen with older and wiser ears
hahaha. You may hear something you like that you didn't catch back in
the day. Personally I think it is a GREAT album.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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ken4musiq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: February 13 2006 at 22:29 |
Howe left for the money and Yes moved on... Yes moved in a different direction and I loved 90125. Damned if you do.. damned if you don't. Some say Yes sold out yet others would have derided the group for continuing in the same vein of their 70's albums. Can't please everyone... anyway much like Drama.. just judge the album on it's merits.. not against albums like CTTE. Sure they don't compare to it... but what does....
Back to Drama... give it another listen with older and wiser ears hahaha. You may hear something you like that you didn't catch back in the day. Personally I think it is a GREAT album.>>>
What does it mean to sell out? Genesis and Collins wrote all those great ditties in the 1980s. Shoudl they have kept them on the shelf. And there he was, Collins this bald guy the biggest thing since sliced bread in the age of the Hair bands. Genesis always wrote great choruses, so it was no suprise that they wrote those nicely crafted tunes in the later 1970s and 80s. "Get Em out By Friday" may just be the most ingeniously crafted song of the prog era.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 13 2006 at 22:33 |
ken4musiq wrote:
Howe left for the money and Yes moved on... Yes
moved in a different direction and I loved 90125. Damned if you
do.. damned if you don't. Some say Yes sold out yet others would
have derided the group for continuing in the same vein of their 70's
albums. Can't please everyone... anyway much like Drama.. just
judge the album on it's merits.. not against albums like CTTE.
Sure they don't compare to it... but what does....
Back to
Drama... give it another listen with older and wiser ears hahaha. You
may hear something you like that you didn't catch back in the day.
Personally I think it is a GREAT album.>>>
What does it mean to sell out? Genesis and Collins wrote all
those great ditties in the 1980s. Shoudl they have kept them on
the shelf. And there he was, Collins this bald guy the
biggest thing since sliced bread in the age of the Hair bands. Genesis
always wrote great choruses, so it was no suprise that they wrote those
nicely crafted tunes in the later 1970s and 80s. "Get Em out By Friday"
may just be the most ingeniously crafted song of the prog era. |
I agree ... I've never thought much of the term ....'selling out' ...
musicians evolve and progress, and if they should find commerical
success... more power to them. I sure as hell wouldn't want to
see Yes spending 30 or 40 years trying to match or duplicate
CttE. They put out a classic pop/prog pop? album and deserved
every penny they got for it.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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stan the man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 504
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Posted: February 13 2006 at 23:03 |
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i love elp. greg lake has one of the best voices i have ever heard. they are a great band even though they were a little pretentious. well maybe one of the most pretentious of the prog bands. but still they are a great band. i really dont know much about them though but from what i have heard so far is really good.
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true as a lobster in a pteredaktyl's underpants.
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Walri
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 12 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 41
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Posted: February 14 2006 at 17:18 |
micky wrote:
ken4musiq wrote:
Howe left for the money and Yes moved on... Yes moved in a different direction and I loved 90125. Damned if you do.. damned if you don't. Some say Yes sold out yet others would have derided the group for continuing in the same vein of their 70's albums. Can't please everyone... anyway much like Drama.. just judge the album on it's merits.. not against albums like CTTE. Sure they don't compare to it... but what does....
Back to Drama... give it another listen with older and wiser ears hahaha. You may hear something you like that you didn't catch back in the day. Personally I think it is a GREAT album.>>>
What does it mean to sell out? Genesis and Collins wrote all those great ditties in the 1980s. Shoudl they have kept them on the shelf. And there he was, Collins this bald guy the biggest thing since sliced bread in the age of the Hair bands. Genesis always wrote great choruses, so it was no suprise that they wrote those nicely crafted tunes in the later 1970s and 80s. "Get Em out By Friday" may just be the most ingeniously crafted song of the prog era.
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I agree ... I've never thought much of the term ....'selling out' ... musicians evolve and progress, and if they should find commerical success... more power to them. I sure as hell wouldn't want to see Yes spending 30 or 40 years trying to match or duplicate CttE. They put out a classic pop/prog pop? album and deserved every penny they got for it.
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I secretly agree....
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: February 14 2006 at 22:39 |
Lord Qwerty wrote:
First of all, you're right.
second of all, who said music necessarily had anything to do with emotion.
Leo Tolstoy and Lord Qwerty agrees 100% with him.
Thirdly, Sorry for the abruptness but I'm listening to the live version of KE #9 and its pretty emotional for me. Forgive me while a dry my eyes.
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Iván says that at last he agrees in something with Lord Qwerty.  And in this case also with Leon Tolstoi.
The main function of the music or of any art is to create an emotional reaction in the audience, it might be pleasure, love, hate, shock or almost anything.
Music without emotion is not music, just a technical sequence of sounds, but never a form of art.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 14 2006 at 22:56 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Lord Qwerty wrote:
First of all, you're right.
second of all, who said music necessarily had anything to do with emotion.
Leo Tolstoy and Lord Qwerty agrees 100% with him.
Thirdly, Sorry for the abruptness but I'm listening to the
live version of KE #9 and its pretty emotional for me. Forgive me
while a dry my eyes.
|
Iván says that at last he agrees in something with Lord Qwerty. And in this case also with Leon Tolstoi.
The main function of the music or of any art is to create an
emotional reaction in the audience, it might be pleasure, love, hate,
shock or almost anything.
Music without emotion is not music, just a technical sequence of sounds, but never a form of art.
Iván
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couldn't agree more Ivan... question is.... is there such a thing as
'emotionless' music. ie. Is there music out there incapable of
evoking an emotional reaction. Is that not as personal as
say...taste is?
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 00:56 |
micky wrote:
couldn't agree more Ivan... question is.... is there such a thing as 'emotionless' music. ie. Is there music out there incapable of evoking an emotional reaction. Is that not as personal as say...taste is?
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I believe that most Muzac (Elevator music) is mainly emotionless (unless disgust and urge to vomit is consider an emotion ).
This "so called orchestras" take a succesful song, add some violins, winds and a couple of mediocre electric guitar players, take all the emotion of a song and just play some notes that transmit absolutely nothing, they take all the emotion and artistic value of the song, and the reason why the stores use this music is to avoid to distract the clients from their main function that is buying.
Last week I went to buy tennis shoes to a big chain store and they were playind a collection of ELP Muzac versions that included Still you Turn me on and Lucky Man (With a repulsive imitation of Moog solo).
I left the store inmediately taking this aberration as an insult to Prog'.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Duchess
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 15 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 16
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 02:14 |
Good thread. To me ELP are a notch below YES Genesis and Floyd possibly because as a threesome they didn't quite have the variety of the acknowledged big 3 . But in the early 70s they were certainly bigger than Genesis. I think though that BSS Tarkus and Trilogy are underrated in the top 100 and highly recommendf them to those who haven't aquired them yet.
There is something I have always liked about The Yes Album in comparison to their later work . I think it is similar to what I like about Foxtrot compared to Genesis' later work. At this stage both bands were unknown and near extinction so they really pulled together , left their egos at the door and really produced as an ensemble. That innocence could never be recaptured once the bands became big. They may have become more professional later on but that innocent stage in a band's
career is delightful.
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ken4musiq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 03:20 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
micky wrote:
couldn't agree more Ivan... question is.... is there such a thing as 'emotionless' music. ie. Is there music out there incapable of evoking an emotional reaction. Is that not as personal as say...taste is?
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I believe that most Muzac (Elevator music) is mainly emotionless (unless disgust and urge to vomit is consider an emotion ).
This "so called orchestras" take a succesful song, add some violins, winds and a couple of mediocre electric guitar players, take all the emotion of a song and just play some notes that transmit absolutely nothing, they take all the emotion and artistic value of the song, and the reason why the stores use this music is to avoid to distract the clients from their main function that is buying.
Last week I went to buy tennis shoes to a big chain store and they were playind a collection of ELP Muzac versions that included Still you Turn me on and Lucky Man (With a repulsive imitation of Moog solo).
I left the store inmediately taking this aberration as an insult to Prog'.
Iván
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In America, Muzac was used in Dentist's offices. As kids we used to call it "dentist office music." Years later I read that dentists had the highest rate of suicide of any profession. I wondered if there was a relation.
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 11:36 |
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ELP opened a pretty big door with the "what the hell is that?" synthesizer solo on "Lucky Man" and it led a lot of rock and rollers to take a peek in the progressive direction. It came out when FM radio was still trying to get established and the sound of that synth really perked up a lot of ears in that day. This wasn't your Dad's top 40 busting the little speaker on the HI-FI, this was serious fidelity and a lot of us wanted more of that stuff. ELP were pioneers even though the sum of their portfolio doesn't hold up well over the years. They were quite capable of putting out some real stinkers from time to time.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Walri
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 12 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 41
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 16:26 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Lord Qwerty wrote:
First of all, you're right.
second of all, who said music necessarily had anything to do with emotion.
Leo Tolstoy and Lord Qwerty agrees 100% with him.
Thirdly, Sorry for the abruptness but I'm listening to the live version of KE #9 and its pretty emotional for me. Forgive me while a dry my eyes.
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Iván says that at last he agrees in something with Lord Qwerty. And in this case also with Leon Tolstoi.
The main function of the music or of any art is to create an emotional reaction in the audience, it might be pleasure, love, hate, shock or almost anything.
Music without emotion is not music, just a technical sequence of sounds, but never a form of art.
Iván
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Ah, but what IS emotion? Can one objectively say "this is unemotional" about someone else's taste in music?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 16:30 |
Walri wrote:
Ah, but what IS emotion? Can one objectively say "this is unemotional" about someone else's taste in music?
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That's why I always say tyhat music is mostly subkjective, tastes and emotions are unique in each person.
But there are also cases in which is obvious a musician is very emotional, like Gabriel or Peter Hammill.
Iván
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29285
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 17:17 |
Duchess wrote:
Good thread. To me ELP are a notch below YES Genesis and Floyd possibly because as a threesome they didn't quite have the variety of the acknowledged big 3 . But in the early 70s they were certainly bigger than Genesis. I think though that BSS Tarkus and Trilogy are underrated in the top 100 and highly recommendf them to those who haven't aquired them yet.
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Not really sure I follow that.The opposite is true in my opinion.ELP were often too 'varied' and maybe lacked a focus to their albums.But as I've said before they were often having too much fun to be like those afore mentioned bands.
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Duchess
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 15 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 16
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 22:10 |
richardh wrote:
[QUOTE=Duchess]
Good thread. To me ELP are a notch below YES Genesis and Floyd possibly because as a threesome they didn't quite have the variety of the acknowledged big 3 .
Not really sure I follow that.The opposite is true in my opinion.ELP were often too 'varied' and maybe lacked a focus to their albums.But as I've said before they were often having too much fun to be like those afore mentioned bands.
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I take your point about them being less thematic by album and their albums had a variety of tracks.But Emerson couldn't write songs nor could Palmer contribute much compositionally. So it is hard for them to match up with say the 5some of Genesis all who had noted individual careers.I rank them at 5th after Genesis ,Yes ,Floyd and Tull in prog history with very little seperating the first three and much ahead of King Crimson Dream Theatre ,Camel and Merillian.
Ian Anderson's performance as an individual is extraordinary.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 15 2006 at 23:07 |
richardh wrote:
Duchess wrote:
Good thread. To me ELP are a notch below YES Genesis
and Floyd possibly because as a threesome they didn't quite have the
variety of the acknowledged big 3 . But in the early 70s they
were certainly bigger than Genesis. I think though that BSS Tarkus and
Trilogy are underrated in the top 100 and highly recommendf them to
those who haven't aquired them yet.
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Not really sure I follow that.The opposite is true in my opinion.ELP
were often too 'varied' and maybe lacked a focus to their
albums.But as I've said before they were often having too much fun
to be like those afore mentioned bands. |
good post and couldn't agree more. ELP's 'variety' could be sort
of maddening. At times a little less variety and more 'Tarkus'
would have been great hahahah.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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