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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: November 21 2005 at 16:31 |
W.Chuck wrote:
TheLamb wrote:
I dont understand... Do you think that when you play 20 notes per second (probably exaggerated but nevermind) there's a "Melody"? There's no melody in those speeds, and if there was you wouldn't be able to hear it... I guarantee you that it's on purpose too, he ain't loosing control, and being a musician myself (not a guitarist but still...) I'll tell you that sometimes are just looking for speed to give some kind of feel to what your playing and it dosent really matter what you play as long as you're playing the notes accurately, and If you heard any of Petrucci's solos you will know that he plays incredibly accurate!
By the way, What's a "Soli", some kind of propper english?
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TheLamb wrote:
Besides, your only talking about solos! Thats wrong in my opinion. You should listen to the amazing things that Petrucci does besides solos, He's a great rythm guitarist aswel and he uses his outstanding technique during parts with vocals or keyboard solo, whatever, not only his own solos. I wish I could say the same about Romeo, he just does angry power coords, but maybe thats because Symphony X's style is more influenced by power metal.... |
First, speed doesn't reduce the melody, lol what a sh*t... and do you know how rarely MJR plays powerchords?... Mostly metal licks and his riffs are awesome as well as his arpeggios (not solo).
And "soli", well I'm german and the plural of "solo" in German is "soli", and in German it is a superior form than "solos". I don't know if it is the same in the english language... |
Speed does reduce the quality of melody. That is why a composer like Mozart or Schupert is considered to be more melodic than a composer such as Vivaldi or Bach. Mozart and Schupert composed pieces at slower tempos to leave more room in a phrase for melody. Vivaldi and Bach were from the Baroque era which focused on speed and the virtuosity of a soloist. Just because there is more speed dosen't mean that there is no melody, but faster speeds tend to fall more in the category of virtuosity rather than melody.
Mike Romeo uses quite a lot of power chords and has a "chug-a-chug" style to his rythmn playing. By "chug-a-chug" i mean that Romeo plays repeatative breakdowns to add rythmn to the compostion. Petrucci's rythmn playing blows Romeo's away. Petrucci uses the entire range of his guitar in rythmn playing. Petrucci is one of the best guitarists at using every fret and every string in every song. On a side note, Petrucci uses much more complex chords than Romeo does. Petrucci's A double flat to F chord changes are much more difficult to compose (especially when adding in other insturments) than Romeo's typical i-v-III progressions.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Xymphony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 03 2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: November 21 2005 at 17:15 |
BTW, i didn't expect Romeo to receive so many votes, for ex. Dream Theater is far more popular than Symphony X... I am happy about this result so far
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Dark Lucidity
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 20 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 6
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 04:14 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
W.Chuck wrote:
TheLamb wrote:
I dont understand... Do you think that when you play 20 notes per second (probably exaggerated but nevermind) there's a "Melody"? There's no melody in those speeds, and if there was you wouldn't be able to hear it... I guarantee you that it's on purpose too, he ain't loosing control, and being a musician myself (not a guitarist but still...) I'll tell you that sometimes are just looking for speed to give some kind of feel to what your playing and it dosent really matter what you play as long as you're playing the notes accurately, and If you heard any of Petrucci's solos you will know that he plays incredibly accurate!
By the way, What's a "Soli", some kind of propper english?
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TheLamb wrote:
Besides, your only talking about solos! Thats wrong in my opinion. You should listen to the amazing things that Petrucci does besides solos, He's a great rythm guitarist aswel and he uses his outstanding technique during parts with vocals or keyboard solo, whatever, not only his own solos. I wish I could say the same about Romeo, he just does angry power coords, but maybe thats because Symphony X's style is more influenced by power metal.... |
First, speed doesn't reduce the melody, lol what a sh*t... and do you know how rarely MJR plays powerchords?... Mostly metal licks and his riffs are awesome as well as his arpeggios (not solo).
And "soli", well I'm german and the plural of "solo" in German is "soli", and in German it is a superior form than "solos". I don't know if it is the same in the english language... |
Speed does reduce the quality of melody. That is why a composer like Mozart or Schupert is considered to be more melodic than a composer such as Vivaldi or Bach. Mozart and Schupert composed pieces at slower tempos to leave more room in a phrase for melody. Vivaldi and Bach were from the Baroque era which focused on speed and the virtuosity of a soloist. Just because there is more speed dosen't mean that there is no melody, but faster speeds tend to fall more in the category of virtuosity rather than melody.
Mike Romeo uses quite a lot of power chords and has a "chug-a-chug" style to his rythmn playing. By "chug-a-chug" i mean that Romeo plays repeatative breakdowns to add rythmn to the compostion. Petrucci's rythmn playing blows Romeo's away. Petrucci uses the entire range of his guitar in rythmn playing. Petrucci is one of the best guitarists at using every fret and every string in every song. On a side note, Petrucci uses much more complex chords than Romeo does. Petrucci's A double flat to F chord changes are much more difficult to compose (especially when adding in other insturments) than Romeo's typical i-v-III progressions.
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go listen to V
Go watch the guitar chapter.
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 05:16 |
I like Petrucci more, so he must be better
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 06:49 |
Petrucci is the man Romeo is the mindless w**ker
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TheLamb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 18 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 08:45 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
Speed does reduce the quality of melody. That is why a composer like Mozart or Schupert is considered to be more melodic than a composer such as Vivaldi or Bach. Mozart and Schupert composed pieces at slower tempos to leave more room in a phrase for melody. Vivaldi and Bach were from the Baroque era which focused on speed and the virtuosity of a soloist. Just because there is more speed dosen't mean that there is no melody, but faster speeds tend to fall more in the category of virtuosity rather than melody. |
I agree with what you say but your examples of classical composers are misleading in my opinion. Vivaldi and Bach weren't focused on speed at all. Atleast that's not the hard part of their pieces. In bach you might have to play a piece with 4 different melodies in the same time, and after all you only have 2 hands - Being accurate while playing up to 3 melodies with 1 hand - That's the hard part of their pieces. A better example of Melodic vs. Technical composers would be, Chopin and Mozart, their pieces are based on beautiful melodies rather than speed. Even though Chopin has these mind-blowingly speedy pieces like Balad No.1 or No.12 Etude ("Revolutionary"), both of these pieces are not focused on speed, they are focused on beautiful melodies... on the other hand Czerny and Liszt are ussualy all about speed... Liszt isn't always about technique and speed but Czerny definitely is, there are very few pieces by Czerny who actually HAVE a melody.
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W.Chuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 11:40 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
W.Chuck wrote:
TheLamb wrote:
I dont understand... Do you think that when you play 20 notes per second (probably exaggerated but nevermind) there's a "Melody"? There's no melody in those speeds, and if there was you wouldn't be able to hear it... I guarantee you that it's on purpose too, he ain't loosing control, and being a musician myself (not a guitarist but still...) I'll tell you that sometimes are just looking for speed to give some kind of feel to what your playing and it dosent really matter what you play as long as you're playing the notes accurately, and If you heard any of Petrucci's solos you will know that he plays incredibly accurate!
By the way, What's a "Soli", some kind of propper english?
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TheLamb wrote:
Besides, your only talking about solos! Thats wrong in my opinion. You should listen to the amazing things that Petrucci does besides solos, He's a great rythm guitarist aswel and he uses his outstanding technique during parts with vocals or keyboard solo, whatever, not only his own solos. I wish I could say the same about Romeo, he just does angry power coords, but maybe thats because Symphony X's style is more influenced by power metal.... | First, speed doesn't reduce the melody, lol what a sh*t... and do you know how rarely MJR plays powerchords?... Mostly metal licks and his riffs are awesome as well as his arpeggios (not solo). And "soli", well I'm german and the plural of "solo" in German is "soli", and in German it is a superior form than "solos". I don't know if it is the same in the english language... |
Speed does reduce the quality of melody. That is why a composer like Mozart or Schupert is considered to be more melodic than a composer such as Vivaldi or Bach. Mozart and Schupert composed pieces at slower tempos to leave more room in a phrase for melody. Vivaldi and Bach were from the Baroque era which focused on speed and the virtuosity of a soloist. Just because there is more speed dosen't mean that there is no melody, but faster speeds tend to fall more in the category of virtuosity rather than melody.
Mike Romeo uses quite a lot of power chords and has a "chug-a-chug" style to his rythmn playing. By "chug-a-chug" i mean that Romeo plays repeatative breakdowns to add rythmn to the compostion. Petrucci's rythmn playing blows Romeo's away. Petrucci uses the entire range of his guitar in rythmn playing. Petrucci is one of the best guitarists at using every fret and every string in every song. On a side note, Petrucci uses much more complex chords than Romeo does. Petrucci's A double flat to F chord changes are much more difficult to compose (especially when adding in other insturments) than Romeo's typical i-v-III progressions. |
what I meant, was that you can also have good melodies with speed...
And pls...
Before you make such **** suppositions look at the notes/tabs MJR plays...you will be surprised...
Edited by W.Chuck
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iguana
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 825
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 11:59 |
just wondering: what is string skipping?
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W.Chuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 12:12 |
you don't play notes one just one string or change from 1 string to the next and so one (like 6. string...5. string...4. string...etc) and string skipping means that you play one different string that are not among each other. So you play the 6. string an then the 2. and 5. and 1. etc.
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iguana
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 825
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 12:26 |
W.Chuck wrote:
you don't play notes one just one
string or change from 1 string to the next and so one
(like 6. string...5. string...4. string...etc) and string
skipping means that you play one different string that
are not among each other. So you play the 6. string
an then the 2. and 5. and 1. etc. |
alright, you mean, like proper guitar players do
thanks for the info, man! i'd rather keep to strumming
open-tunings...
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Dark Lucidity
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 20 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 6
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Posted: November 23 2005 at 04:33 |
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jdtrbn
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 25
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Posted: December 02 2005 at 13:37 |
In my opinion, Petrucci hasn't shown much taste after Scenes from a memory. This gets pretty extreme in some live performances. What made him think that playing a narrow part of the chromatic scale incredibly fast is a good idea?
So, I'd say that Petrucci used to be better, but now it's Romeo, easily. Because of Petrucci's technicality and old records he's still my #3, though.
And by the way, using (Petrucci-like) complex chords just doesn't fit the neoclassical style, it would be lack of skill to use them there.
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Moatilliatta
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3083
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Posted: December 02 2005 at 13:42 |
Petrucci, hands down. His playing is flawless. They both score very high in technical merit, but I find that Petrucci is more diverse and emotional.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16442
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Posted: December 02 2005 at 13:47 |
jdtrbn wrote:
In my opinion, Petrucci hasn't shown much taste after Scenes from a memory. This gets pretty extreme in some live performances. What made him think that playing a narrow part of the chromatic scale incredibly fast is a good idea?
So, I'd say that Petrucci used to be better, but now it's Romeo, easily. Because of Petrucci's technicality and old records he's still my #3, though.
And by the way, using (Petrucci-like) complex chords just doesn't fit the neoclassical style, it would be lack of skill to use them there.
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Yep, but however. Is Romeo even the best Neo-Classical player out there? You know, John Petrucci also plays in the Neo-Classical style
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W.Chuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: December 02 2005 at 19:08 |
but not as good as michael romeo...
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16442
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Posted: December 02 2005 at 19:20 |
Michael Romeo, the Poor Man's Yngwie? I beg to differ
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W.Chuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: December 02 2005 at 19:39 |
...
MJR is not such a classical freak but IMO if he plays something neoclassical it's better than yngwie's stuff.
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walrus333
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 286
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Posted: December 02 2005 at 22:09 |
Oh come now everyone lets be honest with ourselves, Petrucci is way better. I am not in any way saying Romeo has poor technical ability, it is amazing as is Petrucci`s but Romeo at times is little better then Malmsteen with a better backing band. Petrucci all the way.
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If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
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W.Chuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: December 03 2005 at 03:54 |
lol it's nothing about being honest, you chose the one you prefer, technically their are the same, MJR can tap better JP is faster, so they have both advatages and disadvantages but they are technically on the same level so it's just about which style you prefer...
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Valarius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 08 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1480
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Posted: December 03 2005 at 13:44 |
Tough one. I'll go with John Petrucci, but I worship both of these guys.
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