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RYM's top all time Jazz Fusion

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Poll Question: Pick your top three!
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [6.19%]
9 [9.28%]
13 [13.40%]
1 [1.03%]
4 [4.12%]
1 [1.03%]
5 [5.15%]
3 [3.09%]
0 [0.00%]
10 [10.31%]
1 [1.03%]
3 [3.09%]
2 [2.06%]
3 [3.09%]
4 [4.12%]
1 [1.03%]
1 [1.03%]
15 [15.46%]
1 [1.03%]
0 [0.00%]
5 [5.15%]
2 [2.06%]
0 [0.00%]
4 [4.12%]
3 [3.09%]
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2023 at 10:06
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:


I did a search and since last autumn (which is the five pages that shows), Holdsworth in namechecked (positively, several times) by:

(...)  Lewian (...)

What!? I don't remember that. Not a fan of him in particular (although I like some of his stuff).
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2023 at 10:21
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:


I did a search and since last autumn (which is the five pages that shows), Holdsworth in namechecked (positively, several times) by:

(...)  Lewian (...)

What!? I don't remember that. Not a fan of him in particular (although I like some of his stuff).
I only meant/wrote "and of course" you two because you and Grumpy both mentioned him here on the previous page:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mellotron Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2023 at 17:29
A lot of interesting opinions and I guess being 18 years old and loving Angus Young and AC/DC is in my DNA because I do like flash. Not Di Meola a thousand notes a second flash but I want noise. That McLaughlin/Santana album for example. 
I think this goes against old school Jazz players who were so academic they wouldn't dare cross that line of showing off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cemego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2023 at 18:59
For me, I'll take Freddie Hubbard ANY DAY over Miles Davis.  I always thought Miles was overrated.
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2023 at 19:04
Originally posted by cemego cemego wrote:

For me, I'll take Freddie Hubbard ANY DAY over Miles Davis.  I always thought Miles was overrated.
Praise be! Freddie is killer, but Lee Morgan is my favourite trumpet player.
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2023 at 19:32
OF these it looks like Shibusashirazu, Sun Ra, Bruno Pernadas ,Freddie Hubbard and Casiopea aren't on PA. I've always wondered if Sun Ra should be on the site. He has some interesting fusion stuff. Other artists i'll have to explore further. Too many classics on this list so i can't possibly choose.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2023 at 00:21
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

OF these it looks like Shibusashirazu, Sun Ra, Bruno Pernadas ,Freddie Hubbard and Casiopea aren't on PA. I've always wondered if Sun Ra should be on the site. He has some interesting fusion stuff. Other artists i'll have to explore further. Too many classics on this list so i can't possibly choose.
Shibusashirazu is on PA. I write a little about these in the opening post. They all have albums that qualify, but Sun Ra on PA would feel kind of wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2023 at 00:23
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

*many of the typically popular fusion albums, performers/bands among proggers like Spectrum, Elegant Gypsy & Mahavishnu/McLaughlin, Holdsworth, Brand X, Dixie Dregs... leaves me cold more often than not.
Holdsworth, Brand X, and Dregs popular? Holdsworth's solo material is always viewed negatively here. You can't deny that Holdsworth was the most innovative guitar player ever, and his music is melodic.

Yes they represent a sort of fusion/playing that's particularly popular among proggers. As in they've got a greater status among progfans than elsehwere.

-I'm not denying anything, but I often (but not always) don't enjoy how Holdsworth plays - and the space he takes up in the music while doing it. He is one of the most popular fusion guitarists on these forums and is mentioned all the time, that's for sure. Plus everyone seem to think he saves those later Soft Machine albums - except for me who thinks he ruins them.
I think you're both SORT OF right. Holdsworth is mentioned a decent amount on this site, and usually favorably. But it's almost always in reference to his work with UK, Soft Machine, and, to a lesser extent, Bruford. It's his solo work which is often either not mentioned, or not spoken of in a very positive light. It seems like GPF and I are the biggest extollers of Allan's work overall, including his solo output.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2023 at 00:43
Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

A lot of interesting opinions and I guess being 18 years old and loving Angus Young and AC/DC is in my DNA because I do like flash. Not Di Meola a thousand notes a second flash but I want noise. That McLaughlin/Santana album for example. 
I think this goes against old school Jazz players who were so academic they wouldn't dare cross that line of showing off.
I don't think Angus Young is a good example. I'm not into AC/DC (kind of like their early albums when they had a groove and a great vocalist - without being a genuine fan) but he doesn't annoy me. Angus mostly serves the music well, doesn't he? I think I have a pretty high tolerance for noise in jazz and music in general. I do pass on most of the more extreme post-Coltrane brassy blowout competitions, but half my jazz collection is an unbearable listen for just about everyone I know but myself. I collect (and listen actively to) 1960/1970's Krzysztof Penderecki, all of Eric Dolphy, early Cecil Taylor... and they a certainly not considered easy listens. Anyway, it was mainly a way of trying to describe the kind of playing in fusion that has very little appeal to me. I thought it would be much easier to understand where I was coming from, and just move on.

Btw: A lot of old school jazz is more often than not one soloist taking the spotlight after the other, but rarely do I feel like it's about wanting to overshadow each other. I'm sure there's an competative element there as well, but if you got too high on yourself, you'd loose the gig and get a bad rep.
I suppose I prefer a "lyrical" approach to soloing that creates imagery, and has me responding to the music emotionally - over anything technicailly impressive. An approach I know McLaughlin and even Holdsworth have proven themselves capable of on several occasions, I might add.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - May 19 2023 at 03:22
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2023 at 01:29
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by cemego cemego wrote:

For me, I'll take Freddie Hubbard ANY DAY over Miles Davis.  I always thought Miles was overrated.
Praise be! Freddie is killer, but Lee Morgan is my favourite trumpet player.
If all there was to their music is their trumpet playing, I can understand. Any time I'm flicking through the jazz-section and notice Freddie or Lee are featured on the back of the album, I usually end up buying. But Miles is one of a kind, a whole institution, a school that gave birth to more sucessful careers than any actual school could + a visionary and one of the most important artists of the 20th century. His tone, the voice in his playing allowing a lot of breathing space makes him stand out. It's so unmistakable that you'll know it's either Miles or a copycat. His playing in itself may be "overrated"*, but his contributions to the history of jazz, really can't be overrated.

*but I actually think most listeners are aware that his greatness is only partly about how he blows his horn compared to other hornblowers.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - May 19 2023 at 03:38
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2023 at 05:40
^Agree that Miles was an innovator and one of the pioneers of fusion. I enjoyed much of his Bop music, when he was shredding "sport trumpet". However, "In A Silent Way" and "Bitches Brew", leave me cold.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - May 19 2023 at 05:41
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2023 at 05:57
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Agree that Miles was an innovator and one of the pioneers of fusion. I enjoyed much of his Bop music, when he was shredding "sport trumpet". However, "In A Silent Way" and "Bitches Brew", leave me cold.
I don't know if you've already tried them. But there's a trio of typically transitional part fusion/part post bop-albums, namely Miles in the Sky, Filles de Kilimanjaro and Water Babies that I'm really just as fond of as his later "certified fusion"-albums. None of them as abstract as Bitches Brew (which could be said about the later released, Big Fun as well)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rik wilson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2023 at 10:08
I love them all ;Miles Davis- Silent Way ;Frank Zappa-Hot Rats ; and Soft Machine -Third. These albums turned aa old  psychedelic rocker into a jazz appreciator and helped develop my own musical direction. I would add Soft Machine -Seven and Dixie Dregs full catalog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2023 at 11:49
This poll and thread make no mention of guitarist the late Eddy Marron, which is a big mistake. Though mostly known in PA circles for his work in the sometimes krautrock labelled band Dzyan, also featuring at one point Swiss drummer Peter Giger (their second album known as "Time Machine" is jazz fusion all right), Marron also shined in the fusion trio Giger Lenz Marron that I tried in vain to get added to the PA database. 
                        Those guys in Dzyan were Mahavishnu Orchestra admirers, and Time Machine is a astonishingly great album. Giger Lenz Marron (GLM) are under the radar for most people in general, but are more than worth it searching for.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2023 at 12:23
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

This poll and thread make no mention of guitarist the late Eddy Marron, which is a big mistake.
I love Dzyan's second and third album (but I wouldn't primarely label them as Jazz Fusion) and both those Giger/Lenz/Marron-albums. But again RYM's top all time Jazz Fusion is a chart based on the albumratings and reviews on Rate Your Music, so no mistake.
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2023 at 12:35
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

This poll and thread make no mention of guitarist the late Eddy Marron, which is a big mistake.
I love Dzyan's second and third album (but I wouldn't primarely label them as Jazz Fusion) and both those Giger/Lenz/Marron-albums. But again RYM's top all time Jazz Fusion is a chart based on the albumratings and reviews on Rate Your Music, so no mistake.
Gotcha. Thanks for your reply.
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