Would a Gay man feel comfortable in PA?

Triceratopsoil wrote: In dozens of anonymous studies? no Why does it matter to you what percentage of people are homosexuals anyway?  Surely it doesn't affect your own sexuality in the slightest. GKR wrote: ^ and this matters.... why...? Because he asked.

You would be surprised. It actually matters a lot if such a study is done with face-to-face questioning or online questioning; in the latter case the percentages tend to be higher.

It doesn't matter to me at all. But I know that in Cologne, where I live, about 10% of the population is homosexual. Granted that Cologne is a city that attracts homosexuals because it is much more tolerated here. But if 2% of the German population is homosexual that is about 1.6 million people. And 100,000 of them live in Cologne? And  Berlin has a similar percentage, which means about 350,000 are homosexual there.. So if there really are only 1.6 million homosexual in Germany it would mean about 28% of them live in Berlin or Cologne. I sincerely doubt that.

Triceratopsoil wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Triceratopsoil wrote: In dozens of anonymous studies? no Why does it matter to you what percentage of people are homosexuals anyway?  Surely it doesn't affect your own sexuality in the slightest. GKR wrote: ^ and this matters.... why...? Because he asked. You would be surprised. It actually matters a lot if such a study is done with face-to-face questioning or online questioning; in the latter case the percentages tend to be higher. It doesn't matter to me at all. But I know that in Cologne, where I live, about 10% of the population is homosexual. Granted that Cologne is a city that attracts homosexuals because it is much more tolerated here. But if 2% of the German population is homosexual that is about 1.6 million people. And 100,000 of them live in Cologne? And  Berlin has a similar percentage, which means about 350,000 are homosexual there.. So if there really are only 1.6 million homosexual in Germany it would mean about 28% of them live in Berlin or Cologne. I sincerely doubt that. I mean, what we have is many many formal studies VS 1 person (ok, 2 people) saying that they definitely know better than everybody else who actually researched it And actually it doesn't sound that outrageous to have a third of the adult homosexual population moving to the most gay-friendly cities in the country.  Why would they stay somewhere less tolerant?

You contradict yourself a bit, my friend. You say it does not surprise you that homosexuals would move to areas where homosexuality is more tolerated. This does of course mean that there are areas where it is not that tolerated.

This is exactly were socially desirable responding enters. People who live in areas where it is less tolerated are much less prone to answer truthfully to such a question. So there is always a number of unreported cases, a dunkelziffer. How big this dunkelziffer is can only be estimated.

It is the same when you ask women about being beaten up by their husbands, only in that case it is more obvious why they would not answer truthfully. Many homosexuals have still not come out of the closet yet because they fear disadvantages of some kind.

You may argue they need not fear in an anonymous study. But if you constantly live with that fear it becomes an automatism to deny it when you are asked about it. This is why I don't take any of these studies to hit the mark.

Interestingly female homosexuality seems to be somewhat more socially respected than male homosexuality these days. This has not always been the case. Back in the time when the church had much more influence male homosexuality was a very bad thing, but female homosexuality was absolutely unthinkable. A woman enjoying her sexuality without participation of a man was absolutely not de rigueur.

^ Nice try, Dean, but our RayRo won't have any of that.

RayRo wrote: Despite the many wonderful welcomes and encouraging answers I received in my other post asking if Gays and Lesbians are welcome in PA, as an openly gay man, I would have to say that I do not feel welcome.

Edited by Dean - November 05 2015 at 01:21

Steve are suspended from the site?

Kati wrote: identity politics.

I agree that ALL THE TIME, it become boring, but LGBT as a political identity is important, even to adquire the basic rights.

Sean Trane wrote: RayRo wrote: Despite the many wonderful welcomes and encouraging answers I received in my other post asking if Gays and Lesbians are welcome in PA, as an openly gay man, I would have to say that I do not feel welcome.   There were some glaring red flags that cropped up both within that post and externally.   For example, there was not  a single mention of a LGBT discussion group existing in any of the peripheral Prog Archives "non music" forums. There were "threads" that discussed everything from the 2015 NFL season to a non ending "thread" on Libertarianism. But no "thread" discussing Gay and Lesbian rights and their political concerns. Why?   There was also an instance of a longtime "collaborator" who mentioned that he was gay and was surprised that my question even came up. Again, I ask why?   There also seemed, by the person's site name, of either an anonymous transsexual or transgender person. I could be wrong about this, but as an LGBTQ advocate, I have a lot of experience in these matters and have to go by an educated guess. And this broad based posture of anonymity is paramount to me.   Prog Archives is not some bigoted discussion forum, but I feel that cultural norms and practices of the 20th Century, such welcoming gays but not actually discussing the "who, what, where and why's" is what is still dominant in the 21st Century for this site.   If PA wants to welcome Gays and Lesbians, it has to show more tolerance that simply saying we're welcome.        Hey SteveG,   is that your latest ploy to get around your suspension on this site??   To come back in through the back door (pun intended) and camp as a gay dude??   That's lacking much class.... even wondering if this is not disrespectful to the LGBT community   Even Svetonio wouldn't stoop that low!!! (hopefully)

I wondered if this might be the case.

Kati wrote: GKR wrote: Kati wrote: identity politics. I agree that ALL THE TIME, it become boring, but LGBT as a political identity is important, even to adquire the basic rights.   Yes it is a serious matter, these are basic human rights, equal rights for all, it's so frustrating and incomprehensible the injustice done to particular social groups. People should stop imposing onto others their beliefs and instead mind their own business, we know this.   What I said earlier was not meant in an insensitive way, quite the contrary. I don't want anyone to end up feeling alienated or others uncomfortable, made to feel like they need to walk on eggshells around here, thus our gender identity should not matter here.   Sexual orientation, on-the-other-hand now that's an interesting topic to me

you are welcome to visit us any time, Kati

BaldJean wrote: Kati wrote: [QUOTE=GKR][QUOTE=Kati] you are welcome to visit us any time, Kati

Dean wrote: RayRo wrote: Despite the many wonderful welcomes and encouraging answers I received in my other post asking if Gays and Lesbians are welcome in PA, as an openly gay man, I would have to say that I do not feel welcome. RayRo wrote:   There were some glaring red flags that cropped up both within that post and externally. Aside from the usual comedians (myself included) making jokes, the only eye-brow raising post I saw was from *someone* who gave the impression he only supported LGBT rights for political and anti-religious reasons but that was simply a case of "lost in translation". Until people support equality for all regardless of their own political or religious ideology then there never will be equality. LGBT rights should never have been a political issue nor should it ever be a religious issue, it is an apolitical, areligious issue.  RayRo wrote:   For example, there was not  a single mention of a LGBT discussion group existing in any of the peripheral Prog Archives "non music" forums. There were "threads" that discussed everything from the 2015 NFL season to a non ending "thread" on Libertarianism. But no "thread" discussing Gay and Lesbian rights and their political concerns. Why? There is now, and the comedians will rip the piss out of it for a while because that's what we do. Not because we don't take the subject seriously, but because we cannot resist the humour in it. RayRo wrote:   There was also an instance of a longtime "collaborator" who mentioned that he was gay and was surprised that my question even came up. Again, I ask why? Because that is not what defines who he is perhaps? RayRo wrote:   There also seemed, by the person's site name, of either an anonymous transsexual or transgender person. I could be wrong about this, but as an LGBTQ advocate, I have a lot of experience in these matters and have to go by an educated guess. And this broad based posture of anonymity is paramount to me. Erm, do you mean Queen-by-tor? She's female, that is the be all and end all of it. That is not anonymity, quite the opposite.  All people here are accepted as the gender they declare themselves to be. RayRo wrote: Prog Archives is not some bigoted discussion forum, but I feel that cultural norms and practices of the 20th Century, such welcoming gays but not actually discussing the "who, what, where and why's" is what is still dominant in the 21st Century for this site. "Welcome Ray, why are you gay?" seems an awfully rude welcome to me. We discuss these things when they come up, if they come up, but frankly - when practically everyone here supports equality for all then what is there to discuss? Try this: Yeah, I just got out of jail. We showed our support but what is there to discuss there? If Erin wanted to discuss LGBTQ rights there she could have, but she chose not to. RayRo wrote: If PA wants to welcome Gays and Lesbians, it has to show more tolerance that simply saying we're welcome. Positive discrimination (which is in essence what you are asking for) is only necessary to redress an imbalance caused by negative discrimination - the proper solution is to remove the negative, which is what we do here.

nice try mister Dean, but my countryman wrote THIS [@topic "Are gays and lesbians are welcome at PA?" page2]:

Edited by Komandant Shamal - November 05 2015 at 07:48