American Politics the 2016 edition |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 14:44 | |||
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 14:51 | |||
huh |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 15:01 | |||
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Seventh Arrow
Forum Newbie Joined: April 03 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 16:53 | |||
This isn't difficult to understand - proponents of identity politics use the concepts of class warfare and apply them to race, gender, and sexuality. Same ideas, different context.
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 16:55 | |||
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 17:04 | |||
Ideas of class and oppressors and the oppressed exist outside of Marxism, though. |
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Seventh Arrow
Forum Newbie Joined: April 03 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 17:10 | |||
Don't be disingenuous - saying things like "Mr New Member" are meant to be patronizing, as if I have no purpose being here.
In case someone thinks I'm a Trump fan, I might have to state out the outset that I don't like Trump at all - I think he would make a horrible President and he should probably be sent to some far-away island where he can't inflict himself on anyone again. Also, I think he's far from a capitalist par excellence, given how many bankruptcies and business failures he's stumbled through. Anyways to get to your point about Trump being left-wing, yes, he's rich but he nevertheless supports left-leaning values and has done so all his life. He even believes in higher taxes for the ultra-rich. Yes, even though he's ultra-rich himself and has used tax loopholes in the past. He's not very consistent, and he's even less honest, but where his positions can be pinpointed they're more left than right of centre. What immigration and conservatism ideas would old-school conservatives disagree with? I didn't state my own position on immigration, only that Trump's stance on immigration (that can be discerned) is his only value that doesn't seem obviously left-leaning. Edited by Seventh Arrow - May 27 2016 at 17:11 |
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Seventh Arrow
Forum Newbie Joined: April 03 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 17:14 | |||
Well, politics (and prog) make for strange bedfellows sometimes!
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65330 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 17:18 | |||
^ Indeed. You have intelligence and conviction so just keep going and eventually you'll earn respect. Assuming you aren't chewed up and spit out by the insatiable maw that is ProgArchives.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Seventh Arrow
Forum Newbie Joined: April 03 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 17:19 | |||
Definitely, but the expression of webs of oppression, coupled with revolutionary language about the dictatorship of the proletariat is, if not distinctly marx-ian, then at least highly popularized by it.
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 17:23 | |||
There are lots of leftists who are reject Marxist ideology who also are strong proponents of things like feminism. Emma Goldman was an anarchist and was very influential as a feminist (although she did not identify with the feminsit movement of the time) |
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer Joined: November 09 2014 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 8642 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 18:11 | |||
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 18:17 | |||
On the contrary, a number of states have adopted forms of social welfare without ever having been socialist entities. In fact, a Marxist would argue that capitalist societies utilize social welfare programs as a way of buying off the underclass so that they never revolt. BTW, I am 57 years old and a historian. So please don't jump to the conclusion that I am not aware of the overall standard of comparison. American democrats are centrist compared not only to communists, but also to the left-wing/labor/socialist etc. parties in much of the rest of the world. They may be on the "left side of the fence" but not by much, which makes them more centrist than left.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 18:21 | |||
But it turns out we have nothing to worry about, according to Trump's campaign chairman and chief strategist, Paul Manafort: “He needs an experienced person to do the part of the job he doesn’t want to do. He seems himself more as the chairman of the board, than even the CEO, let alone the COO.” [...] Looks like Trump is planning to outsource the Presidency.
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 18:35 | |||
That is true, some do say that. Others support them though, because it helps and protects the working class in some small way for the present. Some think they can use social welfare reforms to help work towards a socialist society, but that is a different topic I think. |
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 18:37 | |||
Yeah that's my main reason I don't like the idea of a Trump presidency. We are pretty much at the mercy of any advisor/cabinet member he has appointed. I don't fear Trump himself as much. |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 19:08 | |||
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13100 |
Posted: May 27 2016 at 19:22 | |||
I have heard Trump is considering changing the status of his hair to that of a dependency, that way he can eventually grant it admission into the Union and be assured of another red state. Edited by The Dark Elf - May 27 2016 at 19:23 |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Seventh Arrow
Forum Newbie Joined: April 03 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Posted: May 28 2016 at 09:32 | |||
In the "rest of the world," yes, but this is the American politics thread, let's not forget. There may be shades of conservatism that allow for social programs, but traditional l'aissez-faire capitalism does not. LFC rejects any gov't intervention that goes beyond law enforcement/military.
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Seventh Arrow
Forum Newbie Joined: April 03 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Posted: May 28 2016 at 09:33 | |||
No problem, thank you for being a true gentleman.
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