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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014
Location: Norwalk, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 9319
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 13:07 |
I'm not so sure about Trump doing nothing if elected. What does every first term president want? A second term. He's smart enough to know that if he wants a second term he's going to have to at least try to do the things he's promising to do. All Trump did was to tap into what many, many Americans want. They're concerned about the economy, they're concerned about ISIS, they're concerned about the open border and what they don't want is more of the same, business as usual politics. His supporters have not slowed down. They are going to follow him through the convention and all the way to November and then they are going to want actions, not words.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 13:26 |
TeleStrat wrote:
I'm not so sure about Trump doing nothing if elected.What does every first term president want? A second term. He's smart enough to know that if he wants a second term he's going to have to at least try to do the things he's promising to do. All Trump did was to tap into what many, many Americans want. They're concerned about the economy, they're concerned about ISIS, they're concerned about the open border and what they don't want is more of the same, business as usual politics. His supporters have not slowed down. They are going to follow him through the convention and all the way to November and then they are going to want actions, not words. |
The Republicans have obviously cut a deal (with a few holdouts): we'll support you and you give us the Supreme Court picks we want. Trump doesn't care about the Supreme Court, which is why he obligingly released the list of potential justices that the Heritage Foundation and congressional Republicans handed him. Even one of them on the court will decimate women's rights, GBTLQ rights, minority rights, rights to join a union, reproductive freedom, etc. That's what Trump will do if elected, and you can be sure if enough Democrats stay home and Republicans turn out, he will have the majorities he needs in Congress to do them. Also, you can forget about the EPA and good luck addressing climate change. As a businessman, Trump sees those regulations as obstacles to SUCCESS. Trump can do an enormous amount of damage, and those who think four years of him will be no big deal are delusional.
Edited by emigre80 - May 25 2016 at 13:27
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 13:32 |
JJLehto wrote:
As for Trump and Clinton being the same, that's the ? No one knows what Trump really is
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I used to tell myself and others "look, Trump would be terrible but not as terrible as Ted Cruz because at least Trump is no ideologue and probably doesn't even believe 99% of the things he says and maybe he will actually bring competent people to work in areas like economy, etc"...
But in recent weeks his mouth has given me plenty of reasons to believe he's just as bad as he looks like (not worse than Cruz though, nobody ever could be worse than Cruz )
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 13:35 |
dr wu23 wrote:
It'll be much the same as before with either Clinton or Trump in there. |
Let's accept for a second than in economics, immigration, foreign policy, etc, Trump doesn't do anything overtly crazy and actually behaves like a somewhat proper president.
Even then: he will get to nominate one, and maybe more than one Supreme Court Justices.
Roe vs Wade, gun control, LGBT rights, you name it... all of that is pending on the balance and I can 100% tell you, whatever else Hillary may do or not, her views and her SC choices will never bring social progress backwards.
That's good enough for me. Compromise.
Perfection exists only in children's stories.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66374
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 16:25 |
A naive question, but if Trump were to become president, would he place all of his assets into a blind trust to dissuade the idea that his policies aren't personally motivated? Or more likely does he not care what people think?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 16:39 |
The correct answer is B
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66374
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 17:07 |
Could you imagine him putting all of his Trump Towers and Casinos, etc...into a blind trust and then waking up one morning and seeing them renamed Romney Towers and Romney Casinos? That would be "huuuuuuge".
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 23:46 |
TeleStrat wrote:
I'm not so sure about Trump doing nothing if elected.What does every first term president want? A second term. He's smart enough to know that if he wants a second term he's going to have to at least try to do the things he's promising to do. All Trump did was to tap into what many, many Americans want. They're concerned about the economy, they're concerned about ISIS, they're concerned about the open border and what they don't want is more of the same, business as usual politics. His supporters have not slowed down. They are going to follow him through the convention and all the way to November and then they are going to want actions, not words.
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Thing is though, it's partly a matter of realism. They want all that, and indeed he'll want a second term but 2 things: First is realism. Even if he tried...it's simply just not possible to coerce mexico to pay for his wall, which would also cost a ton to upkeep, he can't simply stop Mexican immigrants from sending money back home, I doubt he'd get passed (and if so it being upheld) monitoring mosques. Even the KKK said his idea of banning Muslims is unrealistic. His half assed plans to sell government assets have been analyzed by various places and the "math" just doesn't add up. So I think even if Trump tried, he must balk on his plans on the fact they simply are make believe 2: He could win a second term by being normal...ya know win the normal Republican base and people. If he 180's, he would thus become a normal GOP politician.
Question is what all this would mean for his followers. Rogerthat discussed that....could be ugly. I personally hope his personality cult is so strong his followers will just continue to worship him, instead of turning to physical armed revolution or something!
Honestly, I view all the racial/immigrant stuff as pandering and a distraction. It grabs headlines but we all know it's crap. It's disgusting, but he can't really achieve any of it and I doubt he even means it. What has really disturbed me has been Trump's comments about how he'd want to easier shut down media sources/reporters that criticize him...his beliefs on net neutrality, "security" over privacy that type stuff that grabs no headlines but is more disturbing to me because it could be done...
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 25 2016 at 23:59 |
The T wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
As for Trump and Clinton being the same, that's the ? No one knows what Trump really is
| I used to tell myself and others "look, Trump would be terrible but not as terrible as Ted Cruz because at least Trump is no ideologue and probably doesn't even believe 99% of the things he says and maybe he will actually bring competent people to work in areas like economy, etc"...
But in recent weeks his mouth has given me plenty of reasons to believe he's just as bad as he looks like (not worse than Cruz though, nobody ever could be worse than Cruz ) |
Well like I said, even if I'm right that Czar Trump turns out to be a moderate pragmatist, this theory is no reason to back him. Quite the opposite, I'd not want to vote for someone where I have 0 idea what they stand for and may just go with anything. Though I do believe recent weeks has actually shown him starting the slide towards moderatism if anything. Yeah Cruz is worse, I think most people agree actually
Heck, Rubio has the image of the moderate, sane nice guy but his record is near that of the Tea Party, and good ol kind Kasich advocates top down class warfare. I once read an article too discussing how Kasich used to be so aggressive back in the day even Newt Gingrich once told him he needs to chill out This is the GOP for ya. Jeb Bush is now a beacon of sanity and acceptability. The fat ass, loud mouthed bully who shuts down bridges out of spite now is a tame child in comparison!
Edited by JJLehto - May 26 2016 at 00:02
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 26 2016 at 00:35 |
And really, I don't want Trump to dominate all the news. Obama and co do deserve credit for the OT rule update.
It's not only a good move, but seriously this is the first pro labor/middle class thing Obama has done. EPI, an awesome research group, put out this analysis estimating the rule will benefit 12.5 million workers, especially helping women, minorities and youths (often the biggest beneficiaries of wage hikes).
This is a great move, and I applaud the DoL for doing it on their own, opposed to Obama asking Congress to handle it.
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 51474
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Posted: May 26 2016 at 07:55 |
emigre80 wrote:
Also, you can forget about the EPA and good luck addressing climate change. As a businessman, Trump sees those regulations as obstacles to SUCCESS.
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But while calling climate change a hoax, he blames it on coastal erosion of a golf course he owns in Ireland. The man is literally bonkers!
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---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 26 2016 at 11:12 |
progaardvark wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
Also, you can forget about the EPA and good luck addressing climate change. As a businessman, Trump sees those regulations as obstacles to SUCCESS.
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But while calling climate change a hoax, he blames it on coastal erosion of a golf course he owns in Ireland. The man is literally bonkers! |
Yeah I saw that, he is the most contradictory, (lying) politician I've ever seen. Truly unparalleled.
He also managed to work his science denialism into his pandering...he claims China invented the global warming hoax so we'd be put at a manufacturing disadvantage I guess give the man kudos, who else would come up with that one?
True point btw, environmental standards is one area I would also worry more sincerely about a President Trump, because I DO believe he probably means it. He's Koch-like in thinking as a businessperson he's allowed to reign supreme over the lowly planet.
Edited by JJLehto - May 26 2016 at 12:33
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: May 26 2016 at 12:27 |
JJLehto wrote:
And really, I don't want Trump to dominate all the news. Obama and co do deserve credit for the OT rule update. It's not only a good move, but seriously this is the first pro labor/middle class thing Obama has done. EPI, an awesome research group, put out this analysis estimating the rule will benefit 12.5 million workers, especially helping women, minorities and youths (often the biggest beneficiaries of wage hikes). This is a great move, and I applaud the DoL for doing it on their own, opposed to Obama asking Congress to handle it.
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I should have seconded your post earlier. Yes, this is a great rule, and with enough teeth will actually stop some of the exploitation of workers that is so prevalent in this country. People will put up with a lot to keep a job in a less than stellar economy. They shouldn't have to.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 26 2016 at 13:17 |
By the way, and though it was already a given, it's official:
Trump has reached 1237 delegates. He's our GOP nominee.
'Murica
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13099
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Posted: May 26 2016 at 13:19 |
The T wrote:
By the way, and though it was already a given, it's official:
Trump has reached 1237 delegates. He's our GOP nominee.
'Murica |
And form over function triumphs once again.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: May 26 2016 at 13:25 |
time to dust off that old adage: No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13099
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Posted: May 26 2016 at 13:31 |
emigre80 wrote:
time to dust off that old adage: No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. |
He's playing to the groundlings with acerbic phrases and blunt bits of lunacy couched as policy. Build a wall! Blow up the Muslims! Attack China! Nothing up my sleeve -- Presto!
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 27 2016 at 09:15 |
Something that I've not seen discussed, from the media to people, is the impact "winner take all" states had in helping Trump.
Remember South Carolina? Where Trump won 33% of the vote but 100% of the delegates? Before that, and after for a bit, he kept splitting delegates and we all were positive there would be a brokered convention? THEN we got to the winner take all (or most) states where Trump then started cruising to victory. Imagine if it was proportional vote like the Democrats do? There were 3, sometimes 4, candidates who each could've gotten delegates instead of Trump taking near to all, he would've never been on track to make 1237 and Cruz maybe Kasich would've had more motivation to stay in.
I think a lot of changes need to happen to our primary process, one being the GOP should really do away with winner take all. It's dumb, kind of undemocratic, and thanks to Trump there's all the motivation they need
Edited by JJLehto - May 27 2016 at 09:18
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Seventh Arrow
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 03 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: May 27 2016 at 09:45 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
The T wrote:
By the way, and though it was already a given, it's official:
Trump has reached 1237 delegates. He's our GOP nominee.
'Murica |
And form over function triumphs once again. |
America now has two mainstream left-wing parties. Unbelievable.
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: May 27 2016 at 09:48 |
JJLehto wrote:
I think a lot of changes need to happen to our primary process, one being the GOP should really do away with winner take all. It's dumb, kind of undemocratic, and thanks to Trump there's all the motivation they need |
First-past-the-post style votes are undemocratic? Who'd've thought? :P
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