Vangelis - Prog?

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Logan wrote:   You should try some of his earlier albums, if you haven't already (see the clips I posted).   I have them all, and it's quite funny how. My parents always traveled to USA to Antique events, and normally i gave them a huge list of Prog albums (betwen 15 or 20 each time) that they brought me (There was no Prog in Perú), no matter how hard was for them to find this list. But this time in 1982 they left Perú one night without previous notice because there was an amazing piece that was going to be sold to another person if they didn't pay for it, being that it was a lot of money, they had to see it. As usual my sister had her list of things ready (mostly Levis Jeans and some fancy clothes), but I didn't had it. So before they left, my mother asked me what band i was listening, I told her i had just discovered Vangelis (Heaven & Hell) and was very impressed. So after a week, she came with more or less 20 Vangelis albums, most of which I didn't liked because I expected more Symphonic styled like Heaven & Hell and Found Jon & Vangelis extremely cheesy. So still I have a couple in a box hat I never heard. Iván

Great anecdote! 

Incidentally, Heaven and Hell used to be my favourite.  Well, before that i was really into the kind of Vangelis that you would have found in the New Age section of a store.  And dare I say, I once loved Jon & Vangelis.  I saw Anderson in concert with Kitaro, which was cheesy, but I liked it at the time.  I got my most prized LPs from a godfather who picked me up some albums while he was on a trip in France when I was a kid -- if only I still had them, some of them would be worth a  lot now.  Dig out Dragon at some time.  I don't know if it'll fit your tastes really, but it is quite a trip.

Epignosis wrote: lucas wrote: he should be in electronic prog. He belongs to the monsters of electronic music, together with TD, Klaus Schulze and Jean-Michel Jarre. What the hell is he doing in prog-related ???? And why is Jean-Michel Jarre in Prog-related as well ???? I also do not see why Vangelis and JMJ are not in Prog Electronic.  That's where they make the most sense.

What albums/ period is that primarily focuseed on?  I think you should focus on his  70s albums in particular.  I guess you listened to the tracks I posted earlier in this thread to help with the evaluation.

I respectfully don't agree with you. Not just because Vangelis has covered more ground than electronic music, but because I don't think that represents well his most Prog category applicable material.  Sure, he has some experimental electronic albums, and electronic partially describes what albums make him PA worthy, but it paints the wrong picture to me.  I think people will think he's here more for his soundtracks such as Blade Runner and the Bounty than for albums such as Hypothesis and The Dragon. If it were just about his really electronic albums, I wouldn't really be keen on him in more than Prog Related.  He may be a monster of electronic music (especially that often labelled, or mislabeled New Age) but not a monster of the kind of Progressive Electronic music that that PA category represents.

Ricochet wrote: Fellow members, we thank you for bringing up this matter once more (count must be of double digits now) and showing such great interest in it. We would also like to remind you, however, that this will still be of no avail.

Who do you mean by we? Is it a royal we? If you mean Philippe and you, well some of us are not suggesting him for Prog Electronic.  I accept that he was not accepted for that category, but still think (though with Rob's appraisal it's looking less likely) he could find a place in an Art Rock sub (was he neixed for Art Rock before.  However, if M@X has vetoed Vangelis in any prog category, there's nothing that can be done, and tell us now.  It may be a long shot, I don't know what's transpired in the past with the admin regarding this band, and they may not allow it, or there may be pre-existing conditions that would not permit his being evaluated by Eclectic or Crossover.  Perhaps you are just referring to those posts asking for him to be in Progressive Electronic -- your post is rather ambiguous. 


Edited by Logan - November 08 2011 at 18:12

TODDLER wrote: Logan wrote: I certianly wouldn't call Invisible Connections Prog per se, it's more minimalist, experimental, musique concrete. Very good album, but more in the Stockhausen tradition, than, say, ELP.  Yes! This one I have and I must totally agree with you.

Though not what I'd call Prog, and very far removed from the likes of ELP (thank god! ) at least it shows that he wasn't just some mainstream soundtrack, or "New Age" (as he has often been labelled), guy in the 80s.  It's pretty retro though, isn't it?

Epignosis wrote: Logan wrote: Ricochet wrote: Fellow members, we thank you for bringing up this matter once more (count must be of double digits now) and showing such great interest in it. We would also like to remind you, however, that this will still be of no avail. Who do you mean by we? Is it a royal we? If you mean Philippe and you, well some of us are not suggesting him for Prog Electronic.  I accept that he was not accepted for that category, but still think (though with Rob's appraisal it's looking less likely) he could find a place in an Art Rock sub (was he neixed for Art Rock before.  However, if M@X has vetoed Vangelis in any prog category, there's nothing that can be done, and tell us now.  It may be a long shot, I don't know what's transpired in the past with the admin regarding this band, and they may not allow it, or there may be pre-existing conditions that would not permit his being evaluated by Eclectic or Crossover.  Perhaps you are just referring to those posts asking for him to be in Progressive Electronic -- you're post is rather ambiguous.  Not less likely- just that if I were 100% in charge of the database, I would put Vangelis in Prog Electronic.  However, I don't see why he's merely related to prog.  A large body of his compositions are progressive, so that should be enough to move him into a prog subgenre.

I'd put Jarre in Prog Electronic.  I think Oxygene and Equinoxe really applicable.  Vangelis less so for me for that category since I think that various of his most applicable to PA works are not what I would label electronic (or at least for some, solely label as electronic) -- The Dragon and Hypothesis are two great examples of that (not the only ones) and I wonder how those albums factored into the initial PA evaluation.


Edited by Logan - November 08 2011 at 18:30

Chris S wrote: I am sure we would have him in crossover, cannot fathom prog related for this artist. The obvious place would be prog electronic but I know that has been declined. Heaven and Hell is almost symphonic as is Oceanic......hell just good he is on here with so many intelligent reviews

I'd only advocate for crossover as a last resort.  Prog related is honor enough if any of the other teams don't want to take him in.  Crossover seem a bit of a stretch.  Eclectic or symphonic, too.

Vangelis prog related? C'mon guys. Who declined prog electronic and exactly why? M@X vetoed Vangelis from any prog caregory?   What is that?

Edited by DavetheSlave - November 09 2011 at 04:56

The problem is our feudal system.  We have jealous guardians of the genres. Some more than others. Some guardians are very  powerful and influential. If they decide some artist does not belong, then it has to be shunted and fit somewhere else. If know one wants it, but it is an obvious inclusion for the site, then PR becomes the dumping ground.

Don't exaggerate. I can understand why he was rejected for electronic. But I can't understand if that rejection automatically disqualifies him for another genre where his diverse discography fits much better (eclectic).

^Jarre is in prog Related too, so Vangelis is "lumped" with him.

So Vangelis, Synergy, and Jarre, merely related.  Might as well throw in Kate Bush as well.  Maybe if Judas Priest get related status we can have these artists moved to their rightful places.

DavetheSlave wrote:   I went through the same thing precisely when I nominated Stratovarius for PA and that - believe me - was a painful exercise. I decided then that personally I will never nominate a band again here because of the nonsensical arguments and general pain that were thrown my way over that.

Look, nothing ventured, nothing gained.  If you believe strongly in the addition or genre moving of an artist, make your case.  Just don't make or take things too personal.