Do you support universal healthcare?

KoS wrote: Grossly overpaid? yeah, 10+ years of schooling, thousands of dollars in debt, incredible stress, seems to me that they deserve to be highly paid.

Yeah, that's not the issue. I don't have problems with docs earning, say,  100.000 dollars a year.

It's the select few closing in on 200.000 or above I think earn just a tad too much ;-)

LinusW wrote: Epignosis wrote: I've written novels from time to time, and this subject always made me wonder... Doctors in the US are essentially private businessmen.  They go to school and have to foot the bill themselves (grants aside) like most anyone else.  They have to invest money in beginning a practice.  Etc. What if, for whatever reason, people no longer decided to become physicians and nurses anymore?  Folks just decided the field isn't profitable enough to get into (or wasn't interesting- again, whatever reason). What would our government's course of action be in such a scenario (especially with a national health care system)?  Institute a mandatory draft in which certain people are forced into medical school? Just one of those weird "what if" ideas that came to me. Ah, the good ol' socialism fear What if in an extremely market-liberal society we drop all the securities for the working doctor and he's forced to work for slave wages in the murdering competition, if he's to have a job at all? Just one of those weird "what if" ideas that came to me. I mean, these sorts of predictions feel a bit silly, coming from both sides I can only talk for Sweden, but being a doctor is a prestigious job with career opportunities and good salary.

Not a prediction, but just a creative scenario (I think up weird crap all the time).  And yes, Pat, that's what I meant, thank you.

I have been exposed to just about all sides (I, of course, am I not a doctor, but I used to work for a network of them).  I've been a self-payer, had health-insurance, I've paid a fortune in medical expenses, been denied a procedure (in another state) due to the place's belief that I could not pay (the woman literally told me I should be on welfare), and a host of other small experiences.

Well, this right-wing nut believes there's probably a viable, moderate solution. 

Health care is partially so expensive because doctors have to have malpractice insurance, which is insanely expensive.  And people like to sue.  I think tort reform is probably where we should start as a country.

We already do have a "light" form of universal health care (for the poor), in the form of Medicaid, but I think that needs a huge overhaul (I know people personally who either cannot get it and need it, and people who do not need and get plenty of government help, including that fine cheese).

I think we can facilitate some manner of health care incentive for folks on a sliding scale.  It happens to a large extent on the local level (here we have clinics that operate on that sliding scale, so people who make X amount of dollars a year pay in full, and those who make squat are seen for free).  This is especially true for children. 

In Florida, by the way, the law states that hospitals must treat you regardless of your ability to pay.  I don't think there's any reason a person should, say, lose a home in favor of cancer treatment.  At the same time, I don't think it's wise for the government to run health care.

I see firsthand what it has done to our schools and I tremble, I quake. 

Leningrad wrote: J-Man wrote: No. Not at all. Why should I have to pay for other people's problems? Next thing that's coming is communism. I'm watching Obama destroy America one bill at a time. You are the reason that so many people are shot in revolutions

No, they are the reason Bush was elected twice..

KoS wrote: Leningrad wrote: J-Man wrote: No. Not at all. Why should I have to pay for other people's problems? Next thing that's coming is communism. I'm watching Obama destroy America one bill at a time. You are the reason that so many people are shot in revolutions No, they are the reason Bush was elected twice..

Okaaaayy so because we disagree with socialism it means that we support Bush and stuff?

Obama? Nothing to do with socialism? Where the hell did you get that?

Everyone knows this story:

When you see a starving man with no food, don't give him a fish. His supply will run out eventually, and he'll end up where he started, therefore you did not help him at all. If you teach him HOW to fish, he will be able to get by for the rest of his life comfortably. If the upper-class are paying for people living on the streets, how is that fair to the upper class, how is that not socialism, and how is that getting anything accomplished?

My family wouldn't even be affected by these taxes on the wealthy! I shouldn't care at all what happens to them! But if you realize that people who are very intelligent and spend their whole life helping accomplish something important, they deserve their money! They should NOT have to give it to people who don't have jobs.

^ Dude, using the slippery slope is the worst way to argue.
The best way to argue against universal healthcare is to take into consideration that Medicare and Social security are failing institutions. The government is cutting the budgets of schools, prisons, police etc. in order to pay for medicare/SS, so to have an even more expensive govt. program the govt. would have to cut even more programs. Another important argument is that poor people do get free or discounted healthcare. My brother actually got approved for a program covered by the govt.. He has a condition where his bones aren't strong enough so it broke, he couldn't afford the full cost so the gov.t stepped in.Obama should concentrate on how to de-regulate healthcare providers and make existing programs more efficient rather than a complete overhaul that is going to cost more harm than good, especially with the economy the way that it is.


I posted this in the Healthcare thread in the General Topic section, just posting it here in case anyone wants to read it.:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care
Really good article on the American health care system.


Edited by KoS - August 30 2009 at 20:49

J-Man wrote: Damn, I never should have posted in this thread. After I post in these threads everyone hates me

On the contrary, my ambivalence towards you is unwavering. 

russellk wrote: Perhaps we could rename the thread 'Do you support universal healthcare in America?'

Probably what the OP was going for, yeah.

I don't even support Medicaid and Medicare. 

rpe9p wrote: Windhawk wrote: KoS wrote: Grossly overpaid? yeah, 10+ years of schooling, thousands of dollars in debt, incredible stress, seems to me that they deserve to be highly paid. Yeah, that's not the issue. I don't have problems with docs earning, say,  100.000 dollars a year. It's the select few closing in on 200.000 or above I think earn just a tad too much ;-) Everyone makes the amount they make because of supply and demand, if youre going to complain about that at least complain about professional athletes or something, not doctors

Well, if the athletes were also paid by taxpayers money I would have issues with those too, if they rose above a certain level ;-)